My name is Cris and I’m from Spain. I will refer to “my” priest as Father A. I have been thinking about sharing my story for a while but, at times it was too painful to keep thinking about it and feeling alienated because falling in love with a priest is not something common, at times, I’ve felt alone and even ridiculous. However, I’m glad there is a safe space where I can share my story with people who’s been there. I’m not going to get into details because there are too many but I will try my best to be as accurate as possible. Thank you in advance for listening.
I met the priest on February last year. I was a college student and I had to take extra credits and through a friend I took a class on Theology, which I love. There I met him. I was 27 and he was 36. I really liked him on the spot because he was very charismatic, goofy, awkward, smart and he seemed a genuinely kind person. I don’t think he paid much attention to me those days. However, in April we met by chance at a college event and we started talking. Everything was fine and normal. Then summer came and we both parted ways. Next semester I went back to college and I texted him because I really wanted to be friends with him and we met. Nice but very formally.
He later told me that we could go someday to have coffee or something and I immediately agreed. For me it was normal having a coffee with a friend. He happened to be a priest and had a right to have friends like any other human being. At the coffee shop we talked about life and stuff and when we were to part ways when he gave me a present: a book he had previously lent me. I admit that I was shocked and glad. I did not know what to think about it. I thought “well he is a priest, he is just being generous because he sees I’m a little alone.” Inside I was falling hard for him. Later that month I had to admit of having loving feelings and I thought to myself: this is shitty, but if there is a possibility of him liking me, I have to try. So months later (yes, I was a very insecure person back then), I asked him for coffee and he said yes. So we finally met and we talked normally and I thought, for how the conversation was going, that he was trying to push me back. I was sad but ok, but before we parted ways we went for a small walk around campus (it was dark) and when we were alone he took my hand and interlocked his fingers with mine. I was, again, shocked and I did not know what to do but i felt so happy that I just went with the flow. We kept talking but we did not talk about what that meant or about feelings. We parted normally, but i was still in hock and, because of all my insecurities, I did not know what to think because he also did not text me or anything.
Since that moment what we call here hot and cold treatment started between us. At points I thought I was over analysing things but one day I was brave enough and, after a day full of flirting, asked what we were doing. At first he denied it and said that it was me that flirted too much but then he had to admit it was also him. He said that yes, that he was attracted to me but he was not going to leave anything, that was his life. I understood but what hurt me the most was that for a long time he tried to justify all his actions, saying things like he was just a man, that he was having a tough time in his life, etc. We finally kissed, he told me to please leave him, that he did not want to fail his vows. He even told me that when we are in Heaven he would look for me to be together. I do not know if he was serious or if he just told me that just to leave him.
I felt that by justifying himself I had only been a scapegoat, that I meant nothing special to him and that I was ridiculed for having falling in love with him. To this day (and after many more things that happened that I’m not going to tell because it will take too long) I still have a hard time believing that he may have been in love with me, but not enough to try to go into real discernment. I do know if he actually had a crisis in his ministry because of us, but it was not important enough to do a real and serious discernment and just give us a try. Deep down I do understand that it’s his life and vocation, but after so many failed relationships I really wanted to feel loved and cared by a man who is kind and gentle and who likes me back…we have not seen each other in three months and we rarely talk.
Last time we talked he told me he had very good memories of us and that I was not the only one who pursued the relationship. I felt a little bit better but still it is not enough for us being together.
I’m sorry for my English. I do not know what else to say.
I say that Cris described her relationship really well. Now the practical part: how can we help her? First and foremost let’s keep her in our prayers. Secondly, can we share our experience in order to help understand better how a woman-priest relationship goes?
My dear, you saw what looked to you like an attractive man and reacted to him in a normal way. Because he is a priest, he is the one who is no longer normal. All confused and trying to deny his humanity because he is supposed to become an angel. All these stories here point to the inescapable fact that men will never be anything other than what they were meant to be. But they do get sick from trying and confuse women very much by their mixed messages. I know you feel sad but you are lucky. You escaped getting sucked too far into the vortex.
Thank you, sister, it means a lot to me to have support from all you
Hello Cris! Atleast you feel better now.
I like your story. Did he say something about his feelings towards you? I hve lots to say but i dont know how to start. Being inlove with a Priest is something really peculiar and it scares me including my totality. I do have the same experience too. I know how you feel. Being with him means everything but being apart with him, doubts runs deep and i don’t know the answers. Must consider in the long run? how do u see each other? Sometimes being inlove is not that much, not enough to stick to it, coz there’s must plan for everything. You should validate his feelings to for you to know.. but Im happy that you feel good now. I’m Aj, having a relationship with a Priest, We got a son. He promised me to wait for him. Well cross-finger.
Hi! Well he never said he loved me, i can just imagine he may but it is not enough. He has chosen his path and I cannot do anything else ( i have tried like 3 more times for him to admit his feelings and give us a choice). I now live in another city so we do not see each other, we do not even talk. I know he is moving on with his life as a priest and he does not even contact me. Im heartbroken to be honest.
I think he did the best thing for you. If religious life is not his calling eventually he will live. He stayed true to his vows to God which shows he is an honourable man.
You may not know this but when aa priest leaves his vows it take a long time for him to get permission to marry in the church from the pope. It may take up to 10 years . Would you have waited around for that period of time?
I think the priest did the right thing not only for himself but for you. Sometimes loving someone is loving them enough to let them go if you know you cannot meet their needs.
As a priest he would not be able to meet your needs. If he had left the priesthood for you he would not be able to meet your needs for a long time.
This is all true, and he did most likely think of not hurting her, however those are not vows to God. Mandatory celibacy is a man made rule.
Aj, I read that you and your priest have a son. I think it’s the first time I read this on this blog. How does it work: — are you still in a relationship with the priest, in other words is he being a father to your son, and if not, does he help with financial support?
financial support I mean “child support payments”… with men that are not priests, that is how one would presume things work… Just curious, but you don’t have to answer this.
Hi, Cris!
The story you are telling is showing the same pattern of behaviour that the majority of priests have. The same pattern over and over again.
Hi! Yes, that is one of the Reasons this si te has been so helpful, at least i am not alone and it seems less a personal failure
For someone who have been around alot of priest on a daily basis, i dont see this a the normal behavior of the majority of priest.
I don’t know how useful my response will be for you, but I can say that I can relate to your story in some parts.
When I first started seeing my priest, I didn’t know it was going to go past the friends part. I saw it as quite normal that a priest would want to be friends with me. He’s in his thirties too, and we clicked from the start. It was nice to hear from him on a daily basis and see each other often after our workdays. It felt normal and not a ‘secret’. Actually we did not hide much: we spent time behind closed doors, but we also went on ‘dates’, and he even talked about his ministry, and shared a lot about himself, and I, a lot about myself too.
Before coming on this blog, I used to think that maybe it’s due to his age, he craves to be with a woman and is lonely, or maybe it’s because he is not used to being a priest and he is more vulnerable. But according to many on this blog, seems that many are in their 60’s…. so I’ve come to the conclusion that age is irrelevant.
Eventually he told me that he feels that we are getting closer and that we should be careful about falling for each other, etc. That conversation did no good as seemed it propelled us faster into the ‘in love’ zone. I am not lucky in relationships so to have a man so wonderful as he was, it’s no surprise that I fell in love. I think I’m wonderful too if he fell in love too, haha. Anyway, only to say that the more we got away from the shore, the more the relationship felt normal and not a ‘omg, he’s a priest. Now we have broken up, but I have a hard time healing and I think mainly because I can’t think of anything about him that makes me angry. When something is good but done, it’s harder to let go and heal… I wish I would hate him, but I can’t. I’m just hurt that it ended when it was so good, and that I fell for him. Now I’m trying to patch my heart. Story is longer but I’ll stop here.
I wish you all the best on your path to healing.
Thank you dear! Yes, being in love wih a priest is Hard as hell, i really hope the best for you both. I am always the Kind of person who tries in love. You have to do You, and do what you think you need to do to be at peace wih yourself and at your own timing. Take care of yourself, You are worthy of love, from family, fríends ans a partner…it hurts but you loved and tried and were BRAVe enough to put urself put there. You will eventually find the love you want? Dear
Why did you end up breaking up with him, A?
He broke up with me, Roberta, though we were still in love. We talked a long time about it. Was very difficult for both of us. I will always love him despite the break-up.
Yes, how lucky you are to have been spared a lot of the same suffering that many women on this blog have gone through.–some for years. Now move on and concentrate on yourself and finding a nice man who is available for a relationship. And maybe try not to see or talk to this priest ever again. That, and time, will help you get over him.
Thank you, im trying. This is very recent so i am still quite sad about all this. I try very Hard to pray and trust God
Definitely his loss.
I would bet he felt love, but chose fear instead.
All these stories, whether the priests true intentions are motivated by love or other feelings, just confirm how unhealthy and dysfunctional mandatory priest celibacy is.
How can anyone in good conscience believe this is God’s will !?!
Thank you Nikki, i really wish he had, at least, told me he did love me.
Dear Cris, firstly thank you for sharing your story. I think Sister Carrie is right in everything she has said. I don’t normally advocate turning your back on a priest but you are still young and you might wait too long to only find out that he genuinely will never leave. Maybe you could accept that and find a compromise but it’s a very big and very unsatisfactory ‘ask’ for a young girl. You might have to give up having a family and certainly, in the wait for him to leave, forego introducing the love of your life to your parents, siblings and friends. All your interaction will be in secret and most of the time you will have to be apart. It is not an easy route. My advice for someone your age is to leave him be. You will fall in love again and hopefully with someone who can devote themselves to you and give you a beautiful family. This poor confused priest will find you if he wants to and in so doing will highlight to himself that he needs to make a choice. He was clearly attracted to you so take that as a positive but, against all that I would normally advise and only because you are young and deserve better, I do agree – leave him be before you are in too deep. You are in my prayers sweet girl. x
Thank you for your prayers! I’miss already too deep buti also know there is nothing i can do, i have done all i could and he has not risked anything, not even emotionally, it took a lot of pain and effort for himself to admit that he felt something, yet the last time we were together and kissed he pushed me back and say he did not love me, so yeah, im done. Still i miss him and i wish he loved me or, at least, admit it.
Cris,,i just loved your story. I know how you feel. Your priest loves you so much deep down. It’s just this stupid man made hypcrisy pagan rule of mandatory celibacy…that has your priest turning hot and cold on you. This is the stupidity that has to end..now!!! It’s time our church goes back to its’ original roots of..”optional celibacy” with roman catholic priests. The disciples of jesus were our first christian priests…whom were also…married men!! This hypocrisy was put in to control priests and their sex lives..not to have them have any children..so they will not touch church money. Such horrible ”hypocrisy”. You made me cry..when you said..your priest will look for you in heaven so that you will be together..since this man made church of ours will not give any of us a chance to be together in this life with our priests. I’m still teary eyed!!! Does the chruch think priests are ”robots”? They are human beings just like any of us..for pete’s sakes!!!!! When is this pagan church going to learn their lesson??????? My prayers are out for you my dear. Blessings to you. p.s. Hey..you got lucky..at least you got to go out and have coffee with your priest many times..and you got a chance to really get close enough to him to kiss him. Be thankful for that.
Hi! Thank You for your Kind words. Yes, what he told me about being together in Heaven was very sweet and I truly think he was being honest, but what can i do? I have done all that was in my hands. Im personally all in to change that rule, but i do not have hope for us, if we were meant it would have to be human to take the steps, i have done too much and it has cost me a lot of emotional pain….
Chris,,,I know what you are going through,,i went through the same..for the past ten years!!! Well,,we should never give up about this stupid inhumane rule of theirs. Yes,,these priests deny they have feelings for us. They deny they are humans. The church expcts them to be only ”robots”. No one should hold a straight jacket on these priests. It’s only contorl over them the church wants. Hang in there,,chris. Yes,,i know you have done everything you can. But,,we must all stick together and do some sort of petition,,, all of us..for ending this inhumane mandatory celibacy. I will write to father Daniel..he can help us all..after we all sign this petition we can send it to the vatican. Even have people in our church community sign this petition. We should never give up. It’s about time we change this inhumane act…otherwise the selfish church will never end it. My prayers are out for you,,my dear.
And you want to keep your self-respect and not chase him after he has rejected you. Hold your head up high and go make a good life for yourself, The best revenge is to be happy without him and to show him that you don’t need him.
Thank you both. I have giren up on im but i will definitely help whatever initiative we have so otherse won’t have to suffer this in the future. It is also not a question of pride, it is that it is humanly imposible for me to keep trying, specially when he said put loud that he did not love me, that hurt like nothing i have ever Heard before.
Yes,,,Cris…i can imagine how hurt you were when he said..he didn’t love you. Listen!!! He does love you..it is just that most of these priests are all in denial. Most of them their ministry is their entire world to them..it’s not only their work..but their security blanket. They can not just walk out on their security blanket. They would feel lost,,like a fish out of water. Please tell fr.Daniel to make out a petition for all of us on his next article..we will all print it out..and get lots of signatures to end this pagan rule. thanks.
Thank you , Maria, i sure going to do something. I know there is no hope for us, but i want to helo all i can
Hmmm really inspiring msg dear 😉
Me and my Beloved Priest have the same story too. We live happily today, my family knew about it and chose to accept us and our Baby. As my Priest said “GOD is LOVE” How could it be wrong when it feels alright? It’s just the Human Race who made Laws. At the end of the day, God is the only one who can judge us in Heaven.
I am very happy it worked for both of you! Love is a wonderful thing but it has to be grown between Twitter people and my priest has chosen not to. I am glad yours let himself be vulnerable and work in a relationship with you. I am very happy for you.
But why hasn’t he left the priesthood for you?
Hi Roberta, well he told me that he loves God more than he loves me so…yeah that hurt like hell
Keep praying for him to choose love over false doctrine and find his way out.
Miracles happen all the time.
Likely his superiors will be relentless in their efforts to keep him in. It’s a intensely guilt /fear based environment.
At some point in life he will come to know that he has chosen to obey man rather than God.
Hopefully this revelation will come sooner than later.
I think what he said about being with you in heaven was sweet and sincere..That’s the terms they think of always ….their motivations for everything….the afterlife.
In the meantime, don’t put your life on hold.
Keep your heart filled with love , and allow these emotions to help you grow, and the love that is meant for you will finds it way to you.
For sure.
Thank you, i pray a lot but i feel ridiculous praying for someone who says he does not love me, maybe God do not want us to be together after all
Daniel,
I couldn’t agree with your comment more…you were spot on about priests going to confession and then repeating that which they just confessed. I know in my experience I felt immense guilt at the relationship I was maintaining. After going to confession I would feel intensified guilt. He would tell me there’s nothing more to forgive, I am forgiven because I went to confession. He would be angry that my guilt would affect me so much. Looking back, I see where he wanted me to be sad and depressed because we couldn’t be together as a real couple. but if I felt guilt he would be angry. We often argued about that fact I didn’t want to feel sad and depressed all the time. He would say that when I felt and showed my sadness and depression he would know I loved him…writing this makes it sound so very awful. Do you think him saying this is sort of emotional manipulation?
It’s an emotional and spiritual manipulation. It’s worse than a normal man to woman relationship. Whatever he does with a woman, he has the knack to justify it…whilst the woman suffers the battle of guilt…….the hypocrite word is not enough to explain how bad it is!
I’m playing Devil’s Advocate. Even though it’s a man-made rule, don’t we still have to honor the vows? If I make a promise to you, even though you’re not God,don’t I still have to keep my promise? I’m trying to analyze what I’m going through? I don’t know if I’m sinning, or not. I just fantasize about him but I wonder if even that is a sin.
But when you made the promise, did you know exactly what you were promising? Remember most priests did it when they were too young and very inexperienced. Besides, once people know that you want to be a priest, they immediately won’t let you meet any women or have a ‘normal’ life like hanging out with friends late at night etc…..
Its a promise of celibacy for diocesan priests, not a vow, which many are unaware of. Order priests take a vow of chastity, diocesan priest a promise of celibacy. How might one who is 17 or younger have the emotional maturity to make such a decision of great magnitude?
Order priests (example Franciscans, Carmelites etc…), yes they do take a vow which technically is more than a promise. To be precise both the diocesan and the order priests, take the vow or the promise later in life…..example 24 years old. But the issue remains that when he tells his parents that he wants to be a priest, they won’t let him have a ‘normal’ life. So practically he stopped living a ‘normal’ life as soon as he sets foot in the monastery (ie 17 years old). This technically invalidates his promise or vow because on a human level he took a lifetime decision when emotionally, physically, spiritually and his psycho-sexual maturity wasn’t that of an adult!
Thanks!! I see seminarians at my church, they sometimes stay over the summer and help out. It always makes me feel a bit sad.
So in other words, diocesan priests only promise they will remain single, but no promise they won’t have sex, aka chaste? Only order priests promise that? Or maybe I don’t interpret it the right way?
Their promise is a solemn one…it’s not something to be taken lightly!
Its kind of like that, but as a priest should you be having sex outside marriage? According to the church no one should.
No, I wasn’t implying they were not taking their promises seriously. I am trying to understand why they make a promise of “celibacy” – celibacy for me means to remain single — instead of chastity? or does their promise of ‘celibacy’ also means ‘chastity’?
Celibacy is the state of NOT being married. Chastity is the abstention from unlawful sexual intercourse.
So breaking this ‘promise’ is just the same as many people in the pews who have sex outside the sacrament of marriage. Not the earth shaking, ‘cheating on God’ as I’ve heard some refer to it as.
Their promise is public and solemn. We don’t want to make people afraid of God or paint God as a terrible person but strictly speaking they are breaking their promise to God. Yet God sees as well their hearts. What most people find difficult to understand is that most priests were practically ‘pushed’ by their families and friends indirectly. Once a teenager shows the interest in a priestly life, he is immediately subjected to a different treatment. He is most probably not let to see his female friends or not without any supervision…….in other words he can’t live a normal life. Some deep feelings are never dealt with. After so many years alienated by religions feasts, studies and work, he is finally on his own in a parish with loads of work to do…..loneliness starts its own painful attack. He was never taught how to deal with his emotions nor how to deal with women (except maybe that they are the devil’s agents…!!), so all in all it’s no surprise that he succumbs to loneliness and finds pleasure in the company who understands him and takes away his loneliness…..
Absolutely!!! The psychology of it all is very deep and complicated. Can you describe why it is that you don’t feel called to another Christian church Fr. Daniel? For example Lutheran, Episcopal, what keeps you from joining one of those?
In my opinion I’m called to remain in the Catholic Church. Another reason would be that changing church would give more fuel to those who do not want to change as they can treat me as ‘second class baptised person’.
I was just wondering and those are very good reasons!!!
yes, I know the difference between the definition of celibacy vs chastity. I am just wondering why priests don’t make the promise of chastity too …. That is what I am trying to understand…
In any case they are taught that not being married means as well no sexual relationships! I’m sure that his is explained really well. But this is taught only the intellectual level. We all know that each human being is not just loads of intellectual notes! There is the emotional level or maturity which they are rarely referred to. There is the level of friendship. How can an unmarried priest remain aloof for a long time? There is the need of support. In most cases, priests are left on their own to deal with parish challenges. He would need support and understanding. The facts are showing that the number of priests are getting lower and lower….so there is less the sense of community between priests. I’m of the idea that one should never leave a priest alone. This is the case why we are in favour of married priesthood. The woman who stands by her man would give the necessary backing where there is none. A priest is not an animal where he is left on his own to deal with all the parish demons! This is in fact today’s situation in many parishes….
The also do not take the cow of poverty that the Order priests do. I’m not sure why either.
Order or religious priests have a different kind of spirituality – they live in a community which makes sense once one is not married.
I have difficulty in understanding why priests don’t see mandatory celibacy for what it is….or isn’t …meaning from a scriptural basis.
Mandatory celibacy is not bible based, shouldn’t that mean everything?
Any insight???
In my opinion it’s being kept just for economical reasons I mean the treasure of the church remains where it is, with a family, the sons or daughters might inherit that! Celibacy has place in today’s world, but mandatory hasn’t!
That has to be difficult to those who are aware to justify “staying”.
Makes me more convinced that God brings people together to save them from all these misinterpretations of God’s will and in actuality bring him closer to God.
How can anyone effectively do God’s work under such oppressive conditions?
This must take its toll on their soul .
It’s better to stay and fight then to run away! Other religions have their own fights as well! It’s not all rosy in the neighbours’ house!
Yes, running away won’t solve anything.
The ones that stay and don’t fight are a concern.
That complacency is undermining chances for revoking mandatory celibacy.
ah, ok, I understand, Daniel. It makes sense that even if they don’t make a promise of chastity that making a promise of celibacy also includes chastity.
Now, as for the priests that don’t have their heart in the right place, in other words that just prey on women, either one or one after another, I wonder if they use that promise to their advantage to justify their actions. By that I mean, I wonder if they would say to themselves “well, I am not breaking my promise of celibacy after all”…
In other areas, what boggles my mind, is that priests don’t seem to have received the same education…. For example, I have heard a bishop before say: ” a mass is not a real mass if celebrated ‘outside’, it must be inside the church.” Others will celebrate their masses outside when weather permits.
Another one has said: “sex is the most natural thing when a man and a woman are in a relationship and want to express closeness” (he was even referring to unmarried couples – now granted, that statement came only from one priest, although I know he is with no one, and is very religious, and still a virgin he had said.) Others will just say how sinful it is for unmarried couples to have sex before marriage.
Some priests will say that one must not receive communion if they haven’t been to confession in a certain amount of time, while others say that God is merciful and he wants to make his house inside your heart, therefore you can and should have communion as often as possible.
The list goes on… But those are examples that come to mind now and then and that I remain with no answers since years… It’s no wonder some people will just follow their heart at times because it can get confusing after a while with so many views from priests no matter the age group they are in…
Most of them (not all!) justify all their behaviour because there hasn’t been sex! Others have sex and go quickly to confession……..and repeat again and again!!!!!
(p.s. I had internet problems at the same time I had clicked “post”, so not sure if this was sent twice. Thankfully, I didn’t have to start over; I was able to go back one page, and copy-paste what I had written.)
Yes, I understand what you are saying, Daniel, when you talk about justifying their actions or going to confession about having had sex and repeat cycle again. I now understand too that making a promise of celibacy, chastity is meant also….
What I was trying to say was that I am wondering if some priests — those that didn’t have a real relationship with the woman nor fall in love but who ‘used’ women/preyed (or continue to prey) on them AND have sex with them, could there be a possibility that they would play with words and say to themselves : “ok, so what, I had sex with her, but at least I did not break my promise of celibacy because I did not marry, I’m still single, and I did not break my promise of chastity because I “never” made a promise of chastity…. ” What are your thoughts on this?
Also, do you personally think that if priests were to make a “chastity promise” instead of a celibacy promise that they would more likely follow it and not have sex? Or it’s irrelevant?
I think I still don’t quite understand why the Order priests focus on chastity, while diocesan priests focus on celibacy. For me it’s such a huge difference…
You cannot understand it with a normal mind…..just think of a bunch of kids who have never had sex……how would they view women?
I’m not among the ones who thinks you should hope for a relationship. I think you dodged a bullet by not becoming involved with him, even if you were hurt in the process. The fact that he kissed you should indicate his willingness to have it both ways. If he had become your best friend who had always been chaste with you, told you he was in love you, and told you he was thinking of leaving the priesthood for you, then that’s another story. Perhaps, I’m just cynical about it.
I have a short version of my experience: I was involved with a priest who was my college professor. I regarded him as a father figure, but it ended, ironically, when he accused me of being in love with him! I really wasn’t, but we had become very close within nine months. I’ve forgiven him, because I look back and realize we were both two people starving for love. I loved him and felt loved by him, but I didn’t want to enter into a sexual relationship with him, didn’t want to have his children, or marry him. I adored him for who he was, and really, even if he said our relationship had to be sparse and more professional, I would understand. But being accused of being in love outraged me. he cut me off completely, and we haven’t spoken since then. Looking back, I think he was frightened of how close we had become, and I think he was afraid that it might turn sexual, but he didn’t give me an opportunity to explain what kind of love I felt for him. It crushed me, and I left the university because of it.
What disturbs me about priests today is there is a definite desire to have to both ways, to turn to things which aren’t Christ. I suppose I’m hard on them, but there will always be priests who choose celibacy even if we do remove mandatory celibacy. Priests should go into their vocation realizing that there will be times when they are terribly lonely, and they should lean into Christ. Granted, it’s an extremely complex issue.
I would invite you to write your story for our blog…I mean a little bit longer to help priests understand they type of love you wanted to share with him. Believe me, although priests speak about love in their homilies (explanation of the gospel), they really don’t have the slightest idea what it is all about!!
May God Bless you!
Wow Fr. Daniel, you nailed it. They give homilies about love because it’s the Gospel reading, and they give these homilies at all the weddings they celebrate, but have NO idea what they are talking about. My priest said that talking about love OR affection makes him terribly uncomfortable. He it totally clueless about what love is. And when they don’t know what love actually is, it separates them from God and their prayer life begins to decline. How can anyone have a deep spiritual life if they don’t understand what LOVE is?
Maybe! I’m writing a much longer version for a creative writing college class right now, too long for your blog, actually. It feels too complicated and convoluted for a post. If I ever publish it, I’ll send you a link or a copy you can share with your readers. In the mean time, I’ll say it wasn’t a healthy love. I think it could have been if we were both on the same page and if I were older.
In retrospect, I had no idea about what kind of game he was playing with me. I regarded him more as a father figure, but I think he wanted me to be more like a close and passionate friend, à la the “third way” relationship Richard Sipe mentions in his book about celibacy. Actually, I think for a mature priest and a woman who really does believe in the fruits of a celibate priesthood (or who can be convinced of it) then it can work. He didn’t tell me what he wanted out of our increasingly intense friendship, so as a twenty-year-old with a forty-something-year-old man, I was very confused, though I had NO thoughts of taking him away from his priesthood.
He was afraid the relationship would turn sexual, OR he was afraid for his reputation. I’m not sure which. Either way, what he really did was use me. I mean, I’m sympathetic toward him. I understand why he used me, to an extent, but ultimately, he made very serious promises to me he could not keep. I drank his words, and they poisoned me with disappointment.
He lied to me. He used me. Because he wasn’t mature enough to explain to me or himself what he wanted, what the terms of our close friendship was, what he was doing spending so much time with me.
So What do I have to say to priests? Grow up. Go to a therapist. Get in touch with your feelings and be honest with yourself why you try to “save” certain women. Are you looking to be saved from your own loneliness as well? This is what this man was trying to do for me. Save me from my sadness, take me on as a mentee (I was going into his field and he saw quite a bit of promise in me.) But at the same time, he was desperate for emotional intimacy, I think.
His refusal to acknowledge his feelings, I think, would have led us to a sexual relationship, possibly, because it was the logical conclusion of his kind of unthinking use of me to fill his needs–we can all be honest with ourselves here and acknowledge that priests still do have a sexuality–and we would have been led there because of my vulnerable position as someone who was not in a position to turn down any kind of love, even if it meant comprising my morals. I’m glad it didn’t. It would have ruined me.
As interesting, incredibly educated, and kind to me as he was, he was certainly not worth the hurt. I was so upset by the cruel way he treated me, accusing me, that I left my university and left my field. I even moved cities to go to a new university. It was awful. I felt like I lost everything because an over-educated 45-year-old man refused to acknowledge in what ways he was intensely lonely and in what ways he was using me to alleviate it.
Hahah. Okay, well clearly I have a lot to say anyway, maybe I will write something for the blog.
Yes, whenever you feel ok, we would gladly read what you have to say. Remember that it’s so therapeutic to write the story of your own emotions. May God bless you!
Dear Pearl, You dont know how much i understand you. I also had to mover to another city for a while because i could not stand the thought of seeing Him. ..im healino little by little i wish the same for you. What help me os to think that i was honest wih my feeling and i acted on my values of courage, honesty and vulnerability. My love was real, ite was Him who, for whatever Reason, could not accept it.
What happened to you is truly sad. Thank You for your Words, i do not think you are being cynical everybody’s relationship is different so everybody is going to have a different oponion. In my case there is nothing more than i can do. I have tried with all my heart but he has chosen his vocation and there is nothing more i can do, letting them be free to choose (even if we do not agree on what freedom is) is also love (although it is difficult as hell). A relationship cannot be a one side battle, there is need for both people willing to be vulnerable and work for it.
This was meant to be a reply for Pearl : )
I really believe that a priest doesn’t understand the influence and impact he has on a woman when he shows signs of interest and love, says nice things, and all of that. Women fall hard for that kind of attention, but priests don’t realize that because they don’t understand women. So maybe when we talk about them having their cake and eating it too, it’s because they don’t realize the damage and hurt they are causing women when they are enjoying the attention, but are having no intention of leaving the priesthood.
Yes I agree. They need training in how to explain and act with women!
Yes, mine was the aggressive party with awkward hugs and kisses, and then hit the panic button big time after getting aroused. Then he lectured ME. Then he had to find an excuse to go cold. Poor little boy simply could NOT deal with real human emotions since he never had them before. He was falling in love and it totally scared him to death. And he is basically free to do whatever he wants since he is now forcibly retired from active ministry. So I had to become the bad guy in the relationship in his mind and he threw me out of his life. This is sick the way the Church makes prisoners of the priests and they never grow emotionally or sexually beyond the age they were when they entered the seminary, in my guy’s case, age 21, and he never had a girlfriend before that. It was like dealing with a teenage boy now age 65+. I get angry at myself every now and then for being stupid and falling in love with him. The sad thing is, I still love him very deeply and always will. Like Fr. Daniel says, God did not create us with an “off switch” for our hearts.
I totally understand what you are saying. It happened pretty much the same to me. And it broke my heart but there is nothing i can do…
We can always love them, but don’t have to act on that love. We can move on even if we still love the person.
Everything is always about what the PRIEST wants!!
Dear Chris…. your story is much similar to most of us here. I understand what u going through at the moment but I would suggest what MM said. The guy for sure had feelings for you but was scared to express due to his limitations. Its still not late in ur case… be strong and move on.
Dear A, I love your comments… in the sense you are blessed with so much of wisdom. I read your comments on the previous post too, I lv the way you write it makes so much sense.
Feel very sorry to hear about your breakup…. I wish I could do something about it, infact feel sorry for everyone here. I know how much it affects emotionally.My heart aches when I hear word like breakup. You guys loved eachother and to love is not a sin.. I mean to say you’ll can still keep it touch if possible, pray and leave the rest in God’s hand…. tc… love and prayers for all😊
Blessed with so much wisdom! Whoa! What a compliment! 😮 🙂 Not used to hearing those words about me, Mary…
To be honest, I’m a deep thinker : can be a blessing, other times it’s a real curse… I think and think, but often also overthink stuff unfortunately… But I speak from the heart always, and am honest. I guess when one speaks from the heart and mind, it comes out differently than when one speaks from the mind only… Thank you for such kind opinions of my comments and your prayers… I need them.
I am trying to leave everything in God’s hands… cause sometimes the burden will be easier if we just let him carry it for us. I had to do that to keep my sanity. For now, we are no longer in communication because it’s too hard… even praying about him or to see him again one day, is too hard. If I gave everything about my situation to God, or trying to, then I can’t keep a part of worry to me. It would destroy me, and my physical and mental health. It’s out of my hands, and out of my prayers too. God can have it. He’s my Father, so if it’s meant to be, He will make it happen – when He feels like it is the right time, if ever. I feel lighter and better since I have started thinking that way. So if you or others pray about it, then it’s better than if I pray for it. But he knows I am leaving a door open for that day – if he feels like contacting me again. I truly would be happy to see him again one day… was true love. Who knows what the future brings. But if I don’t, I have to accept it wasn’t in the plans… I often have to remind myself: I was happy before I met him, I can be happy without him again.
Bless your heart. Prayers too, for you and all on here…
Thank you! I also think he felt something yet not enough and i have to respect his choice (al though it is painful as hell). I will mover on, but right now im too tired to date…i Just gire myself some time…
@ A – lovely girl you are full of wisdom. I love what you write.
Dear A, i know what you feel 100%. I really hope for the best for you both. I agree on what you said about leasing such a painful and overwhelming situation in God hands. ..this is beyond our power. Lets keep trusting Him and pray for each other and try to live our best lives
A, I too feel that we have to give this to God , to surrender it all and trust in His will which is perfect . He sees this faith and I believe that’s where He is waiting for all of us to come to , that place of peace and hope and trust . Nothing and no one has the power to stand between what God has willed , no matter the time and distance keep that hope in your heart . If your love is part of His plan surely the day will come that you will be together again .
Praying for you and all here
This is how I see it–if a woman has broken up with a man, no matter if she or he initiated it, or if it was an agreement between the two, then it is God’s Will that the relationship is not to be. And if either the woman or the man holds out in hope that the relationship will work in the future, then that is just prolonging the torment and stopping other future relationships from being able to happen and for the future God’s Will from happening. If you think about it in terms of if the man was NOT a priest, but just an ordinary man in your town, then would you still hold out hope for a relationship with him if he ended it and told you he didn’t want a relationship? Or would you move on? So why is it different when a priest ends it and it is over. We really should want God’s Will over anything.
@ Jessica, love is love. Break-ups don’t always mean there is no love and there is constant fighting. Sometimes people break up because they are not at a good place at that moment and need time to grow… Sometimes they break up when things are going well. Everyone who is in the relationship knows the whole story, while the others that are outside looking in, only know what they think they know or what the couple chooses to divulge to them. Though many relationship stories between regular guys or priests and their gf sound very similar, they are in fact all unique.
Even if this man was a lay man, people change, people grow, and many are given/or give others second chances. Every plant grows at their own pace. We didn’t break up because we had problems. It’s a different story if it was due to not having a good relationship and having problems. There are more details that you don’t know of, which I won’t necessarily share because it’s between him and me. If I share, it would take away the sweetness of the ‘us’ when there was an ‘us’. I rather keep it in my heart and smile at the memories, and will smile again when I am old… I don’t know if I will ever be with another man again, but whether it is because my priest remains in my heart or because of a conscious decision I take, I am not miserable, I am happy in life and it is full.
But I understand what you are trying to say. However sometimes even friendships are broken due to thinking it was the best decision at the time, but later, the person wants to reconnect and patch up when they realize that maybe it wasn’t the best decision, and are new people. Would you shut the door on someone who wants to reconnect with you? Unless it was a terrible friendship or relationship, I wouldn’t! I am not sitting by the phone or the door and putting my life on pause. But he will always be the one that I loved and love, and if he tries to reconnect with me, I won’t slam the door in his face. I would be happy to hear from him. Doesn’t mean I want to have a romantic relationship with him again in the future. But being friends, to me, is an enrichment in anyone’s life.
A, you just said everything I wanted to say. Thank you. What you wrote really helps me clarify my thinking.
One of the most self-deluding things women say is “I would like to be his friend.” Let me give you an example of how that works. I know a woman who can never seem to leave a relationship, no matter how bad it is. Her first marriage was very abusive, her husband even openly had an affair while she was pregnant, but the woman hung in. Finally, that husband left her. After some time she married again and was divorced twice from that husband. Even while divorced, they tried living together a couple of more times but it never worked. Last year, this woman told me she had decided to “become friends” with her ex. I didn’t believe her, knew she just wanted him back, and that’s what happened. She disrupted her whole life in order to live with him again and it lasted less than a year, We are no longer in contact but I heard about the expected result. The woman keeps repeating the same mistake because she can’t get it through her head that this ex of hers doesn’t love her and just uses her when he feels like it. A, you are obviously not in a place to “become friends” with that priest. If he came back into your life even on that basis, you know you would be right back to where you were emotionally when you broke up. You and he parted more than a year ago and you are still saying that you will always love him. Do you really think that is healthy–to feel that way about a man who rejected you? I think I know exactly what’s going through your mind. You are still making excuses for him because he is a priest, the same as you did when you were with him and he was giving you the hot and cold treatment. You have managed to convince yourself that he loves you deep down and that it’s only because he is a priest that he gave you up. I think that’s what you cling to, that there’s a man out there who loves you even though he said “No more.” How do you know for sure he didn’t leave you for another woman? He managed to have an affair with you, so why not with someone else, too? Or maybe he’s just a world-class masochist and ditched you, the love of his life, in order to be lonely again? What does it matter? You’re not with him and to have him in your life would be on his terms as always. Are you sure you don’t need some help with this? Recently, you wrote you talked to a priest about this love affair. I think it was a poor choice. What you need, it seems to me, is to stop seeking the attention, the approval, the sympathy of any priest and find a counselor unaffiliated with the church to help you see how this need to cling to a man who rejected you goes far deeper than the apparent circumstances.
Sister Carrie, put the judgment stick down and your attitude in the garbage!
I will just completely ignore and dismiss what you have written in your response to me because you don’t even know me, and you are completely wrong when you say it’s more than a year since we broke up, and judging me the way you did. Who says it’s been more than a year? Who knows me and my heart and my situation better than me? You? Right. Your comments are rude, patronizing, ignorant of my situation, and condescending. You are lucky that there are some nice people on here that I don’t want to shock with my words and lucky for you that I have a good willpower to hold back, because I would have many choice-words for you right now. I will just have you guess what they could be. Have a nice day.
Don’t bother responding to anything to me because you are a nobody to me. You’re the one that needs help. Remember that when you are pointing one finger at someone, four more are pointing at you. Seems to be a common pattern of yours with others on here too. So, put the brakes now.
@ SCarrie,
You come across as having your own personal stake in all of this , and my guess would be in your experience it wasn’t a positive one.
That isn’t the case in all of these stories.
People can love each other deeply and not manage to stay together for many reasons.
Love is the greatest energy in the universe, it doesn’t “die”.
Perhaps many , many priests force love from their lives believing it’s”Gods will”.
Whether we agree with that or not is irrelevant, that’s what “he” may believe, and that’s what he will honour.
We can be with many people, but I truly believe there will always be the one”, it’s just sometime life’s circumstances can get in the way.
This by no means diminishes the love, and certainly doesn’t erase it.
Well said A! You are awesome! I applaud your courage for sharing details of your story with us. You are an inspiration to me and many other women on here who have had similar experiences. You have helped so many of us. Please try not to let those kind of comments hurt you.
Well said, Nikki.
Aww, thank you so much, Angelfish. It’s very kind words of you to say. 🙂
Yeah, you are right. I am not going to let her comments hurt me. First of all she is wrong on so many accounts regarding me, and second, she is a nobody to me. She fails to look at the speck of dust in her own eye. Now I simply don’t read anything that has her name at top. That’s how I deal with someone like her. She is not worth it to me. I know it’s usually always a criticism or something negative when she comments about anyone.
On this blog, we seem to see two kinds of people: those who draw you to them by the breath of fresh air they display and the scent of the flower they are (how they treat you and how they try to make you feel), and those who are only thorns. They only know how to attack and have negativity coming out of their mouth every time they open it. I imagine it is the same in their real life too. Some people on here or in real life, we all know of one or many, could make a second career out of back stabbing others/criticizing others/saying negative stuff about others and about everything, etc.
To give love to others, one must love themselves first. Otherwise they can’t give to others what they don’t feel for themselves. When someone is always on the attack mode or putting others down mode, it only diminishes their value, not the value of the one being targeted.
thank you MM, S, Cri, for your kind words.
Dear sister, You are being too Hard on A, calling her childish when She is in so much pain. We can advise each other but we must not judge, it hurts and it is unhelpful. You May day you are just being honest, but honesty without kindness is never brave, and A has been brave to open her heart and be vulnerable because this is a safe place. It is great to give advice (even if it is kite what we want to hear) but not shaming and judging each other.
Yup A, I agreed with what you wrote back then in November of 2016, just as I agree with what you write now.
I share many of your opinions. You do a wonderful job at writing. Keep up the good work.
Pay no attention to the negative people. They appear to enjoy dragging everyone down with them. And yet they expect everyone around them to be sunshine and roses, and to live up to the impossible task of making them happy.
Did you ever notice how the women who are judgmental and make negative comments are too afraid to share details of their own story? Likely its because they don’t want someone to rip it apart like they do to the women with positive stories about their relationship with a priest.
I guess its true ………. “Misery loves company”.
Relationships are complex per se and in the case with the priest is even more. Yes, they are men, too, but their situation is completely different, that is why this blog exists and we dont go to regular dating advice sites because only if one has been on a relationship
(of any kind) wih a priest knows what we go though with the emocional confusion and
* the pain and uncertainty we face when they deny their feelingsi and you never know for sure if it is true thay they never loved you or that they actually do not know how to deal with w
What they are feeling. ManY of them have never had any kind of romantic experience nor even been kissed…i have had experience and this one is absolutely unique
@A, you are right…when God is our Father and we consider him our Father in true sense would not he be concerned for his child. I look up to that faith of total surrender without any doubt in the heart.
Im not a good writer but what I intend to say in general to all is… no one is going to live forever in this journey of life here on earth. So whilst we are still there y not love.. y not talk..y not keep in touch just as friends… but I oso understand to each is their own.. everyone has their own set of difficulties. In your case too A it was he who broke up not you so not your fault. Glad you look at it in a very positive way. It’s sad when two humans who love eachother so deeply have to part their ways. My heart aches.
Thankyou Fr Daniel for this site. It’s cause of ur help we who are from different parts of the world cm together and share. Every night before going to bed I read the comments here…. feels good to hear and share with people who have similar experiences. When I tried sharing about my priest with my close friends they either cut the topic or gave a look as if I have committed a grave sin, no one gives a listening ear. The world out there is so brainwashed for centuries now so most consider the love between a woman and a priest as a sin and think it can never be holy.
IT’s too hot to handle!!!!!
@Mary. You are right. Life is so short, so why not connect with others, risk love, make friendships, and make the most of our life here on Earth.
No, I can’t say that I look at my break-up in a ‘very positive’ way. I am in a much better place now than I was, but I just had to turn around my way of thinking after too long of mourning and crying over him and missing him like a sick puppy… I was thinking so much about it that I became more and more depressed and my health started to suffer… But, there comes a time in life, whether it’s mourning a loss through death or through physical separation, that one must try to take the necessary steps to try to pick themselves up and start feeling joy in other things… I don’t bounce back quickly to start off with, but when it’s a loss that I can’t talk about with with most of my friends, it makes the bouncing back even slower and the burden heavier. A burden or sorrow shared is halved. So by giving it totally to God and allowing Him to carry my burden for me, just like a child would want his parent to do, I started feeling better. I’ve done a lot of positive self-talk, positive reads or video-watching, and prayer to achieve that growth, and to feel peace inside me. It didn’t happen over night.
I think it’s also about being “grown-up” and mature. After all, even teenagers have to learn about letting go of crushes and getting over love. Almost every one in the world has to learn that lesson. We can too.
Dear A, I understand you so much, not seeing Him, having to face his choice has been one of the most pain ful Things in my life…after 4 months i am only starting to feel a little bit more at peace, yet a feel an emptiness in my heart that it is still too heavy to carry. I no longer pray for Him, i have delivered my wishes of love and for his well being to God, i can only go on and try to heal little by little, trusting that God knows better and wants what is best for us
Yes Cri, God understands us better than we understand ourselves or our needs. Glad you are feeling better and better….
I can’t say I agree with this. There are a lot of men out there who aren’t priests and are still perpetually immature, selfish, and/or unable to commit to a woman. Plenty of them are attractive, even intelligent, but it is too difficult to have a good and fulfilling relationship with them because they are–in a word–impossible. But priests who want to have clandestine love affairs know they have an ace up their black sleeves. They know the women will look on them as “special”, “different” , feel sorry for them, whatever–and cut them plenty of slack. Most Catholics, after all, treat these priests like God’s younger brother. If you fell in love with a priest because he is a priest, then it’s your own fault for putting him on a pedestal. If you fell in love with a man dressed like a priest, then you should expect him to react no differently than any other man who has good intentions toward you. Where there is a will there’s a way. Where there are only excuses, there will be no way. Not ever.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, SisterCarrie. I’ve greatly appreciated what you here and Marshmallow in the previous (Annie’s) post have written as yours is an entirely different viewpoint from the one most of us on this blog have been relying on to contemplate the unhappy ending priest-woman relationships. Sobering!
Many times over the years I’ve wondered if I would have fallen in love with my priest if he had not been a priest. I can’t know for sure but, honestly, I’m afraid he would not have been able to cast a spell on me as a layman. In fact, in the eyes of us Catholics – at least in mine and of the Catholics I personally know – priests are way above ordinary men, more lovely and lovable than them.
Seriously folks, is all the pain and suffering from these relationships, worth it????
Yes. How do YOU turn off love that is deep in your heart, especially when you are praying for the priest? Constantly praying for him…and so it is impossible to put him out of the brain and the heart.
There is no easy or magical solution….yet the day you realise that you’re at a dead end…then you wake up to a new life. Our human spirit can survive an emotional crash in an incredible way. Obviously talking to somebody (especially a professional person), might work wonders!
In the meantime we’ll keep you in our prayers! May God Bless you!
100% Agree with you Brokenheart. For many of us it was not some much of a chosen route as one you find yourself on and you are further down it than you even realised.
@ A – Urghh. I felt everything you said! I too do not bounce back easily from setbacks – especially those of the heart. You have done so well even to be able to speak of it. Stay strong – believe things happen for a reason (that’s the second time I’ve said that to someone this week). I tell you that I’ve had some life experiences more awful than I thought possible and not only survived but can now see how they led me to where I am now. God sees the bigger picture. He does not always deliver what we want in the package we expect it in but he is listening to us. See in your heart what it is that you want and know that it will come to you. Huge hug for your courage and your honesty.
I would stop praying for him, since that is why you can’t stop thinking about him.
Also, it sounds like you are having obsessive thoughts about him, and fantasizing a lot. Have to try to control your thoughts.
Hi BrokenHeart~
I am sorry for your sadness, and you~ like many of us who have loved a Priest~ have a right to be sad. Letting it consume us is the challenge; I know I had let my experience consume me, and it was not healthy or attractive. I am *still* working through that.
Might I suggest these three decisions I made in my “grief cycle”? First, I gave up praying for my Priest: I turned him over to St John Vianney and the Blessed Mother to intercede. Second, I left my church. It was not easy, but I knew I could not process forward seeing him nor continuously witness the very place I met him. Coincidentally, since I have left, he was transferred so we are both in new *Parish Homes.* I do not plan to return to my church anytime soon. This change has made an enormous impact on my moving on. And thirdly, I *give* myself just five minutes a day to think about him, and it cannot include *any* of the ugliness. This, too, has been very helpful to my healing. During this time, I also read Kubler-Ross: The Five Stages of Grief. Five stages we might not all experience in the entirety. This helped me put a label and an explanation on much of these very alien emotions I had encountered.) Al this *still* a work-in-progress.
We all need to do what works best for us, but I am sharing these as having been the most effective for me with prayers asking Jesus to stay with me on this course. Maybe it is just timing; maybe not. I will add~ I had done professional counseling~ but it could have been too early or whatever, but it was not the greatest experience. Not saying all counseling is bad, but mine came with *judgement.* (If you go this route, I would ask the provider prior to the first appointment if they can be objective in a situation with *The Church* and add it is not about crimes against children.)
Your man is not well, and as you described last month, it appears he is yet active in the disease of addiction indicative by his refusing treatment even though it cost him his sacramental faculties, his self-esteem, his financial security. And he has pushed you away. Until he is able to get his *drug* under control, he has NO heart for anything but the next *fix*.
Please, BrokenHeart, put YOU first now. You have been a good and loyal love, but please start loving yourself. It is such a relief to come to the place that “pain is not love and the pain just ain’t worth it.”
God Bless You~
Marshmallow
thank you MM.
Some women here evidently think so. And they go ballistic when someone sees the truth about them that they can’t or don’t want to see themselves and advises them to “move on”. If they can’t have the relationship, they wallow in the non-relationship that they write post after post about here.
S Carrie
You perceptions are negative, and there can be no healing or growth in that way of thinking.
“As you think , so you shall be”….a classic .
Also in the bible…look it up!
I’ll never “get” being bitter.
I’m done with your negativity.
I choose to live with good intentions, and thoughts ,that brings happiness back to me and great experiences.
Fr. Daniel, often it is hard to read the posts or comment because we keep getting redirected to the video ads on top of the page.
How about installing an addon to your browser which blocks adverts?
video adds? I don’t have that….?
Best way to get over anyone–don’t see them or talk to them, try not to think of them, and get rid of any photos or mementos or anything that reminds you of them. Google it and you will find a lot of articles on that topic.
I don’t quite agree with you, Jessica. Not everything needs to be thrown out or gotten rid of.
If the relationship was a bad relationship, yes, I would agree. But if it’s only good memories you have of them, why get rid of pictures or anything that reminds one of their special ones. I have every picture of us, I have kept things he bought me because we had a good relationship. I have tucked them away so that it’s not always in my face, but yeah, will keep them always. Anything about my past, whether it is about him or other nice areas of my past, I have kept. Looking back, when I remember having thrown out stuff, I later regretted it.
I guess they (priests) probably distance us cz they want us to settle down, be out of it. They know they are helpless.
But at times in some relationships distance doesn’t matter. Infact it makes the bond of love grow stronger.
Whoa, SisterCarrie, we have to be gentle and nice to each other. We are all the walking wounded with lifelong issues.
Sister Carrie, I don’t recall seeing anywhere where A asked for you to analyze her relationship with her priest. Your comments in response to A appear very judgemental and are becoming more personal and hurtful. Why? What good will that do anyone? When you said something about making you understand why the priest wanted to distance himself from her, that was just hurtful and unnecessary. It’s okay to disagree with someone, but it is not okay to add to someone’s pain.
Please be respectful of the women on this blog by having compassion for what they have gone through and by keeping the judgement and hurtful comments to yourself. Thank you.
I agree with A. Put the judgement stick down! (And I don’t care if it’s original or not…it’s what you need to do).
A, no one can tell you if this man did or did not love you. Nor should they be suggesting that you seek counseling. I also do not know if I will ever be in another relationship again and that is pefectly healthy. Moving on and finding someone else is not always the solution. The ability to find happiness within is. The fact that your post from 2016 was pulled up and into this current discussion is disturbing. I totally understand you and Im sorry someone felt the need to diagnose you and then claim to only be ‘suggesting you might need help’, when in fact they were very pompous towards you. Keep going and be strong, you are awesome!!!<3
Contrary to my original plans, I had to thrash some comments. When somebody is writing and sees that the others are not happy with his/her comments, one should at least examine his writings again and not insisting that the others are at fault!
There are so many places on the internet where women in love with a priest are judged, bashed, filled with guilt etc….We need this place in order to let these women express their experience without being judged! This blog is spiritual too. I want to create a spiritual space so we have to write in a prayerful way. Maybe I have been too patient…. I have to treat some authors like children..before approving comments I have to do a lot of thinking and maybe trash their comments.
On the other hand I was pleased that some women are strong enough to withstand judgemental comments. Please remember that in real life not everybody will agree with your opinions….some maybe outright violent and judgemental!!
Thank God that we have some mature readers…may God bless you!
@Daniel, yes yes, thank God we have some! 🙂 😀
And maybe the priests know they are holding us back from having a normal life and being able to get married, so they let us go because they are thinking of us?
That is so true.My priest is a writer.He wrote a piece one time saying. Should I leave yr heart free for another? They know they don’t want to sting us along,however they can’t make decisions for us.xx
SisterCarrie will you mind your tone?
We are here to “share” not to “hurt”.
From the day I’m reading your comments I find you extremely “contentious” “loud” “rude” “hateful” woman who seems to be frustrated and simply pouncing here on people whom you do not even know. I initially kept shut.. out of respect assuming that you are a nun. If you are please don’t spoil the image of the religious whom we respect. It’s said a person creates his/her image with the way they talk. You have just lowered your image to the extreme.
Your above comment to A was extremely hurting …. [You write well, “A” and because of it you’ve fooled a lot of people here over time into thinking you’ve got common sense, are “down to earth”. But I’ve noticed you are the controlling type, even want to control what others think of your ill-fated romance.] Is that the way you talk to a person who was depressed but had the courage to lift herself up. Put your judgement stick down SrCarrie you are no one to judge.
And yaa… please don’t preach about LOVE, it doesn’t suit your tongue. With the kind of negative approach you have doesn’t seem like you even know what love is. Do you mean to say if Love doesn’t end up in marraige than a person has to finish it up and bury it???? Is that the definition of Love according to you?????
Love never ends === irrespective of the circumstances=== and that’s how even Christ taught it.
Fr Daniel,
This has been on my mind and I feel compelled to say that I feel S Carrie has crossed the line with her personal attack on A…
These accusations are benefiting nothing to the cause of mandatory celibacy.
How and who people love has no consequences to anyone else.
These methods of “attacks” should be discouraged.
They are a source of alienation in my perception.
Dear A,
Please don’t be affected with the hurtful comments of Srcarrie. Your advices have always been helpful for majority of us and we need you here and I truely mean it. Even in your previous comment you spoke about positive reads, video watching and stuff. So its quite evident who speaks positive and sense and who speaks negative.
Remember critics will always be there like Srcarrie, don’t bother. It’s she who needs to see a counsellor and the majority supports this thought.
SisterCarrie,
We here are women in love with priest who want our priests to continue with priesthood but are requesting for celibacy to be optional. If all priests make decision to leave how will the religion survive? The ones who have left on the other hand go through the emotional pain of leaving priesthood though they have so much of talent and potential to serve as excellent priests. Is the Church not losing onto our good priests? So we are here to discuss Mandate Celibacy does not have any biblical base neither did God force it on anyone and it should be Optional. That’s the whole point!!!
I have to say this: Sister Carrie did cross the line with her tone and her hurtful words, but if you read her posts carefully, she really does have a lot of wisdom and right ideas. She also just sounds frustrated with how some of you won’t change, but keep making the same mistakes over and over. Even I feel frustrated sometimes because I see the wrong directions you are taking and a lot of you are beating a dead horse and really do need to move on. I suffered a lot from my priest relationship in the past and don’t want you all to make the same mistakes and suffer like I did. I think Marshmallow and Sister Carrie feel the same way and are just trying to help you all. They just need to write differently.
Everyone loves within their own comfort zone.
It’s not up to any of us to project our intentions on others.
Unless someone asks for advice …we should respect their experiences.
No, Roberta. I appreciate your good intentions but some people are blunt and no one has the right to tell them to “write differently”. Telling a person to conform is useless because no one will ever be able to satisfy everyone all of the time. I have been here for a year and, yes, you are right. It is frustrating. Every time there is a new article, the comments are mostly just repetitions of the ones to the previous article by mostly the same persons. In between there are always quarrels instigated by frustrated women who take their thwarted feelings and powerlessness out on someone else. “A” has been telling her story in the comments over and over again for a year. I know it by heart. To keep pointing out that someone has rejected you and to keep saying “I will love him forever” is so self-defeating that I can hardly express how I feel about it. Exactly how *do* you tell someone that what they should be saying is “I will keep a hope in my heart that I will manage to find someone who will love me as I love him and commit to that relationship”? Don’t you get it? “A” doesn’t want to be told anything like that. No way of expressing it would have brought any other result except indignation. Now, if I had written “Yes, A, it is so romantic that you are committed to Father X and will love him for the rest of your life even though he won’t be around and doesn’t want to communicate with you”, she probably would have thanked me. And yet what a false sentiment on my part that would have been, adding to all the rest of the phoniness in this world.
Sister Carrie, we can’t change people. Only God can. Some people have to learn on their own, through mistakes and suffering. We can’t help everyone. It’s useless to try. You really shouldn’t be so emotionally invested in these women. It would be interesting to hear your story and why you are on this blog. Did you have a relationship with a priest too?
There is such a thing as unconditional love, not everyone is gifted with that capability though. As time goes on or when the right situation or opportunity presents itself, Im sure many who say they will always love their
priest will find another fulfilling relationship. Why does it bother you to the point of needed to insult, if someone at the present moment can’t imagine that? A is happy, just because you could not imagine being happy if you were her does not mean you should challenge it.
@princess: yesssssssssssss! What true words! I loved what you wrote and agree wholeheartedly with everything you said.
Who is to judge what’s right? If you are triggered that much by what someone writing on a blog does in their life, you need to look within and figure out what issue you have that is causing such a response. That is no excuse!
There is a difference between bluntness and hostility.
I for one feel it’s time to move on and let things be.
To each their own.
To each his own, but encouraging false hope in any relationship is futile. And, writers here have a right to withhold encouragement for the *obviously* dead-end relationships that dominate this blog. Those comments are then typically relegated to (judged as) “negative”, a posse gathers, and the commenter is promptly chastised including lessons on “writing styles.”
Certainly, women who have rewarding relationships with a Priest are to be supported if you come onto this blog; they face much adversity outside of here. This is entirely different than extending false hope which too often appears to be a *requirement* to *safely* comment on this blog.
In either case~ whether maintaining a no-growth relationship with a Priest or holding on with false/empty hope~ is the case to repeal mandatory celibacy being advanced? I think not.
Since I was the first to use “have their cake and eat it, too” (and is recently being toted by several), that is the agenda that is at-risk of being advanced, ie becoming the age-old mistress.
And being a mistress, does nothing to change mandatory celibacy whether it is meaningful or not.
I do not believe there is a woman that has posted here to date that does not realize they have taken on a ‘less than ideal’ situation. No one is asking for anyone for ‘hope’. This is no different from anyone dealing with the loss of a love, priest or not. Repeatedly telling a broken hearted person to forget it and move on is useless and unhelpful. Everyone grieves in there own way and heals at their own pace
Excellent words…obviously the person who writes these thoughts means that she has made a lot of experience…May God bless you!
Thank you Fr. Daniel for your committment to the cause and May God Bless You Always!!
Got to agree with you Princess. When there is a lot of aggressive or negative talk, there is a hurt festering behind those words. There are better ways to communicate a message even when you feel strongly that your view is the right one. Most extreme opinions are flawed. No-one is obliged to read this blog. If it feels repetitive then stop reading. People heal at different rates and in different ways. I personally am in awe of A as she is very honest about what happened and remains hopeful of a happy future. She has not resorted to maligning her priest when it might be very easy to project her heartache on to him to gain our sympathy or redress any hurt pride (and I’m not suggesting for one minute that applies to you A). I’m not even suggesting that anyone who has been treated badly by a priest should ‘suck it up’ and there are clearly cases here of awful treatment at the hands of priests but there are also genuine love stories whether successful, unsuccessful or ongoing and those that continually want to deny they can exist or tell us we are fools or that it won’t work because he didn’t propose two seconds after smiling at us, or that if they really loved us they’d leave are equally repeating themselves. We are all guilty of it. Personally, I have no objection to constructive advice from someone with an opinion that differs from my own because I want my thinking to be challenged but just plain negativity and bullying tactics of picking on one person here and running them down really serves no purpose. I also find the blanket caveat that keeps reoccurring of saying “nobody likes what I have to say because I speak the truth and they don’t want to hear it” pretty weak. Perhaps deliver your same message in a different manner and we might listen. And I don’t mean you have to be all cosy and sweet, I mean leave out personal attacks and treat people’s varying experiences with respect and courtesy even if you can’t empathise. All women are not the same. All priests are not the same. And yes, I’m repeating myself.
I want to thank you, the women on here (Nikki, Mary, Angelfish, Rose, Princess – I apologize ahead of time if I am forgetting someone) who have spoken up and have shown what love means through your support and kindness when SC was attacking me recently. Words cannot express my gratitude, on how you have come together to be there for me, one of your sisters. I am touched. Through that one thing in common that brings us to this blog, let’s be a team, united, not divided. There is strength in numbers.
You all had wise words for her, and I totally agree with what you have said. Despite what you have expressed to her, and what I have, she will probably still not understand what is wrong with her behavior, and continue behaving in such a destructive way towards us, and acting like a bully. I feel pity for her actually. Her arrogance, continuous negativity, and attack mode truly are a reflection of how a miserable person in her life she must be. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think it’s impossible to be truly happy in life, while at the same time just looking to make others miserable and argue.
Again thanks, ladies. Your heart is in the right place. While she has lowered her value, you have raised yours.
Thanks for the kind words A. I know your pain and frustration. I just wish we could put a stop to this garbage. I feel like just when things start to get really supportive and helpful we get some ignorant negative person come in and ruin it for the rest of us. I am feeling, once again, like I can’t handle much more of this.
After my experience with being attacked on this blog, I spent a lot of time concentrating on other people’s point of view, and trying to understand what their intention may be.
Unfortunately, I still can not see how any of this negativity helps anyone to move from mandatory celibacy and toward married priesthood. How does telling someone to give up because every relationship with a priest is a dead end, or give your priest ultimatums, or make women feel bad for loving their priest, help anyone move in a positive direction let alone in the direction of married priesthood?
It appears to me that a few people come to this blog only to discourage and judge others, with no intention of helping change the plight of women in love with a priest.
I came to this blog to seek advice from women who are in love with a priest and to hear their stories so I can better understand the challenges of loving my priest. I also came on here to see if there are any other women who are like to me and have had positive, loving relationships with a priest. It turns out there are several here on this blog. It appears that there are also several whose “Love of their life” turned out to be a priest, and because of the unique challenges of loving a priest, are not able to be with him right now. That doesn’t mean it is a dead-end and will never happen. I would bet many of those women and the women who have given up on their priest, would be happily married now if married priesthood was commonplace.
I did not come on here for priest bashing or to hear someone who doesn’t sound like they ever loved a priest repeatedly insinuate that every relationship with a priest is a dead-end. Nor did I come here to have a stranger, insinuate that no priest is capable of loving a woman and treating her well. I also did not come on here to hear about the negative view of priests as a whole from someone who doesn’t know (or want to hear about) the positive experiences of women like me.
When Fr. Daniel said that it is detrimental to our cause if we are fighting among ourselves – he was absolutely right!
If you can’t say something that will help us move in the direction of married priesthood, perhaps you are commenting on the wrong blog.
Thank you Angelfish. You put into words a lot of what I’ve been thinking but hesitated to write for fear of getting my head bashed in. And thank you Fr. Daniel for this blog and for stepping in to curb those on here who are negative to others. The negativity does not help us at all.
Prayers for everyone!
Thanks BrokenHeart. There are a couple on here who just don’t get the hint that that kind of disrespect and negativity is not welcome here. But they will come up with excuses and lies to try to justify their behaviour. I feel as though I am about to get “my head bashed in”, but I know in my heart that I have done nothing wrong. I am done with trying to teach people how to behave in the way God wants us to. They are adults and should behave as such and not like children.
This is being sent with a soft voice, so there are no misunderstandings.I have not ever written that *all* relationships with a Priest are a dead-end nor have I ever written that *no* Priest is capable of loving a woman. And, I have never been a Priest-basher. Nor have I read any other writer make such claims.
I have several~ decades old~ near and dear friendships with several Priests; why would I make such a statement that bashes *all* Priests? And, I am still in love with my Priest even though I have moved-on. I have NEVER asked my Priest to consider departure of any kind from his vocation. He is an amazing Priest; the world needs more of him. But, there have been some significant wounds that are still in healing stage; wounds that are not indicative of *respect* toward me. A huge hurdle to overcome because relationships of any kind take more than love. They require respect as much or even more than love.
And, unfortunately, this blog is saturated with wounded women. These women need our loving and candid support. That does not in any way diminish your experience or that of others who have or have had a loving relationship with a Priest.
Let’s move-on realizing there are at least two schools of thought that stand-out on this blog. And make an accurate reflection when interpreting others’ comments. Okay?
I am happy~ hands-down~ for you and the several others who have a meaningful relationship with a Priest; I have written that along the way as well. Why not get them onboard to promote non-mandatory celibacy? They have the strongest voice.
Thank you A ,
Love is the best experience that can happen to us…And you are one of the Blessed ones with it.
This sadly isn’t true for all involved.
Keep the love alive in your heart.
X
hugs to you Nikki.
But what incentive does a priest have to want to get married, if a woman is willing to have a serious relationship with him, with all its perks, without any kind of commitment from him. There is no motivation for him to need to get married this way.
Love in its truest , most beautiful form !!!
Dear SisterCarrie,
I tried to write to you privately but unfortunately your email address is fake. Considering all things on board, I decided to make it public.
I’m not going to beat around the bush: your comments are annoying a large group of people. I wish to remind you that our blog is a spiritual one. Judging and attacking other persons is not going to be allowed. You can express your opinion but without going into attack. Please don’t let me take other drastic actions. This blog for me it’s a kind of spiritual work. I’m not going to let anyone destroy my ‘parish’!
If you feel that they don’t want to listen to your views, it’s up to them but you will not be allowed to attack them. Just to inform you I had to delete some of your past comments.
May God Bless you!
Rev Daniel and family.
She may be mentally ill.
Fr Daniel~
Most of the “headline” relationships that are featured on this blog are stories of disappointment, hurt, confusion, disrespect and other negatives between a Priest and the writer. How about spotlighting some of the positive love stories between a Priest and his lady love? This could give some great insight into loving a Priest. It would also be a pleasant departure from the typically detrimental consequences of a relationship with a Priest that bring women into this blog.
Thank You~
Marshmallow
The problem is: how do you convince people to write their love relationship (with a priest) on a blog? I had several writers who cancelled at the last minute…they were literally terrorised to publish their story!!! There is so much fear…..
What about featuring the women that are *regulars* in here and who are enjoying a meaningful relationship with their Priest? Would they have *their* story featured?
I think these loving stories are drowned out by the (many) Priests who have been unkind, hurtful and dismissive especially to the new commenter to the blog who is a stranger to the rewarding stories of the *regulars.*
The *headliner* stories are really downers for the most part even though I understand the reason they are up there. A blend of the featured headliner would be a pleasure. My2cents.
It’s up to the readers…..I always encourage everyone to put their story as the main story of the blog….but some of them are afraid……
Are there catholic forums and websites where someone could submit an article or position paper in favor of priests marrying? I think getting that view point out there to the public would be a good start. To gage how others support or object the position of priests marrying. Eventually, you’d need the support of the clergy but perhaps if they see that there is a lot of support for priests being able to marry they would be more willing to join the efforts. As they wouldn’t be alone. And submit these articles and position papers to more than one news source or forum. Maybe not just catholic news forums but maybe something even like a national newspaper? Just thoughts…not sure if they are any good or I made any sense. Just thinking about how to move forward.
You can try national or regional newspapers…..but sometimes Facebook could be useful too.
I’m so sorry but please nobody can protect you in life. You have to get up and continue walking. It’s the same teaching that I preach to my kids. I’m not going to be there to defend them all the time.
When I left the parish, I can assure that although I had great support, there were some people who tried to hurt me and/or my family. Yet we stayed strong. Believe me, in real life it’s more scary. The fact that I continued living my life is enough proof that what they said was simply nonsense. My example was stronger than their secret, behind the backs conversations!!!
The fact that that fellow priests won’ allow me to give a helping hand in our parish, is enough proof that they are afraid of me!!!! I’m a living testimony and that’s too much for them to handle…….
I understand what you are saying Fr. Daniel. We can’t protect ourselves from everything, but we also have to be smart enough to know when we are putting ourselves at risk.
I just find it ironic that the person who put all our loving, kind priests in one basket with the abusers, and repeatedly disrespected both us and our priests is now asking for us to share our stories. I don’t buy it, and don’t trust her for a minute. She hasn’t even accepted responsibility for her attacks on us and now she wants us to open ourselves up.
That sounds a bit crazy to me.
Let’s look at it from a different side. If we stop sharing, then we are practically killing our blog. Whether it’s the intention of one person or not, it would have defeated our main basic aim: to share our stories. Remember that there are enough forces trying to silence us in order NOT to hear any more stories about loving relationships with priests, this would be another easy victory for those kind of people!
Yes, Fr. Daniel, I know you are right. We need to continue to tell our stories, in spite of the people who are trying to bring us down. I certainly want to keep this blog alive. Your blog is very important to me, as are many of the women on here. That is why I get so upset when someone tries to ruin it.
I promise to try to gather up the courage to tell my story some time, when I feel safe enough.
Thank you for keeping an eye on things as well. That means a lot to me that you are trying to keep us safe.
May God bless you.
Amen!!!
I absolutely adore how you view this is a parish. What a fine one it is thanks to you Fr.Daniel.
God Bless.
Thanks to you all. What is a blog if nobody follows it and nobody writes on it? May God Bless you all!
Since Roberta asked, I’ll tell mine, but briefly. The priest I met was an academic and he and I were both scholars of Ancient Near Eastern history and the Bible. He was not a priest in a congregation, nothing like that–but a Jesuit. The man was in his sixties and our friendship grew as a result of our common interests. I suppose, after many chats, walks, and having coffee together, a kind of love grew up between us. I was very much impressed with the keen intellect of the priest, his good sense of humor, but that he was a priest never impressed me in any way, nor did I place him on any sort of pedestal on account of it. I know better than that. Anyway, one day I received an astonishing and distressing phone call. It was from the priest. He was in the ER and told me that he had suffered a heart attack and was going to have to undergo a surgical procedure. “If anything happens to me, I want you to know that I love you. I’m sorry I didn’t say it before, but I didn’t have the nerve.” Those were pretty much the words–and then he added that I should call the hospital the next day. If he had survived the surgery, I should try to see him. Did I tell him that I loved him, too, on the phone? No, I didn’t. I was too shaken and confused by everything that was happening. Honestly, I never suspected this priest saw me as anything but a person who shared his interests. He’d never so much as kissed me or even tried to. The most he ever did was to call me “a lovely woman” but I inferred nothing from that. All I could manage to say was to wish him luck and that I would come to the hospital. By the time I arrived, the priest was already in surgery. All I ever got out of the nurses was “He’s resting comfortably”. I went to the ICU but couldn’t see the priest. I was not a relative. I knew the room the priest was in–or thought I did–because another man dressed as a priest was hanging around in there. I don’t know. By that time I was desperate because I realized how much that man had come to mean to me. I wanted to talk to him, encourage him, hold his hand. But I never got the chance. The priest died during the night. Nobody tried to stop me from attending the funeral. There were quite a lot of people there, some I knew, most I didn’t. I wish I had had the presence of mind to lie at the ICU, tell them I was the priest’s sister or niece–how would they have known the difference? But I didn’t do it, just went home with a sick feeling in my heart. And to this very day, it crosses my mind that I didn’t try harder to see the man who was my friend, tell him how much he meant to me–because he was a priest. There was a kind of barrier between us and I couldn’t cross it so quickly. Besides, what would the other priest in that room in the ICU have thought if I’d come in there? That intimidated me at the time, too. He seemed to me like a kind of guardian at the gate, someone who would suspect my presence. Because I am a pretty woman. We are always suspect, no matter what our intentions. One learns it early on. Another barrier among the unspoken many between people. It’s not much of a story, no great romance, not even a major tragedy because the priest and I had never developed our relationship and its duration was not very long. I got over it, but that doesn’t mean aspects of it don’t still haunt me occasionally.
And, Daniel, my email address is not a fake. You can publish it if you want to–I couldn’t care less.
No, I would never publish a private email address. That’s not my way. But I did try to contact you but all emails bounced.
I find your story incredibly romantic—book-worthy.
You should submit that to the New Yorker.
Romantic, yes, but so sad he didn’t have the joy to see SisterCarrie by his bed at the hospital. Such a sweet man!
Priests don’t seem to find it easy to articulate their feelings, they prefer to display their affection with acts of kindness and gestures rather than with words.
They are not allowed to experiment or question emotions or feelings! It’s a no go area! In other words, some people say that their psycho-sexual development has stopped when they were 14 years old!!!
The New Yorker fact checks.
She may not want her details exposed.
In my diocese, we seem to be losing pastors because they have a relationship with a woman. The bishop just bounced another one out, pastor of a very large parish, for “violating boundaries” with a woman. He is suspended, most likely will not be reinstated as so far none of them from the past couple years have been reinstated. At least this priest now has had the choice made for him. Someone reported him to the bishop and quick action was taken against him. BUT this is NOT the way to encourage the Church to abolish the mandatory celibacy rule. This type of dismissal really hurts the priest who gets caught. The bad thing for them is to get involved with a WOMAN. Those who have boyfriends apparently do not get dismissed even when they flaunt their relationships and everyone seems to know what’s going on. It is going to continue to be a very long uphill battle to have the Church make celibacy voluntary instead of mandatory.
My experience fully backs what you wrote….it’s ok if the priest goes out with the same man…..but it’s not ok if he is seen with the same woman twice!!!!
So much hypocrisy.
I suppose it’s a great cover for some, but I’ll never understand how the others can’t see they are following and propagating man made doctrine that has been twisted from God’s word.
I understand their “calling” must be strong, but at what price?
And I will never understand why those that aren’t inclined to have female companionship would begrudge their brothers who are.
What does this say about the love in the hearts ?
I’m asking everybody to refrain from commenting about the person writing comments on this blog. Let’s comment on the ideas one writes about and NOT the person who is writing it!
Just a note, some of the most famous writers in Literature were completely mad, neurotic, hysteric and unstable kind of persons…..yet we don’t judge them but rather enjoy their master pieces of art!
Do priests look for excuses to touch a woman? My priest shakes my hand, squeezes my shoulder very hard, and touches my head. It’s harmless, but do priests do that in order to touch women? I wrote in August that he went to shake my hand, but held it instead for 30 seconds. Is this his way of having intimacy?
It’s a mentality of, if you do not enter by the door, enter by the window!!
You all need to read the excerpts of this beautifully written true story. https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Priest_Who_Couldn_t_Cheat.html?id=jhMOm0HoexcC
I wonder if that’s what’s going on with my priest. (I’m “Wendy”). We were seen together in church a lot. But that was HIS doing. It was when I voluntarily came, and spoke to him about my job that he got nasty. If people do gossip about us (I don’t know if they do.), it’s because HE’S the flirt!!!!!
@NUMRN (WENDY)
I failed to find the excerpts you mention from “The Priest Who Couldn’t Cheat” book. Which one of those mysterious words (some eastern European language, I bet!) stands for ‘excerpts’ or leads to them?
What you were saying about vows, my priest was ordained at 32. When would he have entered the seminary?
He is an exception….but one has to know his cultural, religious, personal background too.
Mine too was in his early 30’s. Still is. Seminary life is 8 years if I am not mistaken.
If you’re talking about the US, the bishops are under a lot of pressure due to the numerous lawsuits against the dioceses. I’m not familiar with the case you refer to, so don’t know the details. There might have been a vulnerability issue with the woman. Otherwise, I have not much read that priests are getting stripped of all faculties due to relationships with consenting adult females. I haven’t read much about adult boyfriends, either. They just get moved.
I was referring to the parishioners common approach to priests having friends.
And yet if they abuse some Altar boys they just get moved along to another Parish…
I don’t understand why people are afraid to share their stories. If you don’t use your real names and locations, and if you hide some specific details, no one will ever know who you are. ,
Stop these hissy fits! The same ones who are whining that others are attacking them don’t hesitate to call others “mentally ill”–[as if they were in the least bit qualified to be a judge of that] . If you can’t even handle comments on a message board, what makes you think you could deal with being married to a priest? Clandestine affairs aren’t so difficult [if one doesn’t mind them] but the inherent difficulties in marriage to someone who has probably never before had an open relationship with a woman, probably doesn’t even understand so much about women or how the real world works, would be quite a challenge it seems to me. Added to which would be the type of Catholic who would rather see the ministers of the church as “eunuchs for God”. They’d still be there and probably offer no warm welcome to the priest’s wife. What would you do if you didn’t like a comment from one of them? Lie down on the floor of the church and beat the floor with your fists?
Sister Carrie, please try to be a nice and kind person, or you will never find a man to want to marry you. But are you a religious Sister? And why are you SO angry?????
Sr Carrie’s 4 October, 426p post is the unvarnished truth; it is not an *angry* post. What about it is “angry”? Or is it strictly an opinion that offends the *status quo*?
And, she is under no obligation to disclose any vocation she might hold. Please respect her privacy.
Marshmallow
Actually, I don’t do anger. I do the law. And here’s a little lesson in it. Just because a party doesn’t use his or her real name on one site, doesn’t mean one doesn’t use the same pseudonym AND the real name on another site. Therefore, casting aspersions on another’s character by averring that they suffer from a mental illness, are immature, or so angry that they can never find a husband is actually libeling a real entity. Nor is anybody really anonymous online. If you start a legal proceedings, all it takes is a subpoena to one site to get the email address and another to the ISP to get the personal info. Then–voila–you become a party to a lawsuit and you will have to defend it. No matter how strong your defense is, you still need to pay an attorney to represent you–or you lose by default. Then you get a judgment against you. And it doesn’t even matter what country you are in. Unfortunately, I have had to shut down another website because the person who ran it found it less expensive to do that than to fight the suit. That was the settlement. Knowing all this, you all have choices. You can keep this up–or you can stop. Daniel, I am not going to say this again. I want every post here that casts a single aspersion on my character to disappear. This is not a game. You have already written here that you have nuked other posts and I have taken snips of that and everything other offending post that either demonstrates your partiality toward certain actors here and/or willingness to let others attack me. As for a counter-suit, you will not find a single post by me that is actionable by law. I am not that stupid. I haven’t called anyone a single name, nor have I written anything libelous against a single person here. There are International laws that pertain to the Internet. It’s up to you. The choice is yours. I’ve had it.
SisterCarrie & Marshmallow are constantly being overtly and covertly insulted, and yet being yelled at as being angry or frustrated. That’s not fair. They have a different viewpoint and that’s fine, we are free to follow or not follow what they suggest, so what’s the point of seeing them as enemies?
The unmitigated truth: thank you, Sr Carrie!
~Marshmallow
I for one, would appreciate staying focused on our common objective on removing mandatory celibacy.
God is good.
Thanks Nikki for your common sense. Let’s follow Nikki’s wise advice!
You have set a great example for us Fr. Daniel.
Great response, Nikki. 🙂
I second that Nikki. I would prefer to hear a discussion about how best to implement that.
One debate I’m torn on is the issue of women being involved with priests undermining progress on this. I’m not asking from a perspective of should the priest be involved with a woman in the first place. That to me depends on the relationship. I don’t have a problem with a priest being in a loving relationship as I do not believe mandatory celibacy adds anything to a vocation. Conversely I think the right woman supporting the priest contributes to his vocation. For those that can and want to manage celibacy it actually isn’t even the same sacrifice as for someone where it is a struggle. I don’t particularly like wine so giving up alcohol isn’t the same sacrifice as someone who loves wine. I could go alcohol free today and it wouldn’t change my life. But if you said “no more chocolate ever” I would find that quite difficult and I’m sure I would lapse here and there either by hiding it from you or pretending that that one bar I had in the car didn’t really count. My point here is I’m coming from a position where to me I don’t bat an eyelid hearing priests are in relationships with women. I am not shocked or think they are eternally damned. I think it is only human. I never put priests on pedestals.
So coming from that stance and, for argument’s sake, assuming all women and their priests are in loving, monogamous relationships and would wish to marry and continue within the priesthood were it allowed, how does the woman REMAINING in a relationship undermine progress.
I get the “they have their cake and eat it” argument that the priest then doesn’t do much about it but honestly I don’t think many, if any, priests would do much if the women left anyway. Historically it seems to be women who have mainly taken action by writing or petitioning the Pope.
If I ended my relationship with my priest he has already told me he would just go back to how things were. He tells me that most of his priest brothers do not support mandatory celibacy, that it is a direct cause of loneliness, alcohol addiction, pornography addiction, watching TV all day, playing golf all day. He would not, at 61, stand up and advocate for a married priesthood. The way things are going between us – he is far more likely to choose to leave altogether and slip quietly out of the back door. That might suit those here that feel this is the honourable thing to do but it would not bring about an end to mandatory celibacy. It would be one less priest at the Altar who would probably be declared to have been having mental health issues in a bid to cover up the real reason. And they wouldn’t let him leave easily or on good terms as it is.
I can list all the reasons why at 61 he won’t stand up and fight for an end to mandatory celibacy. But it’s all been said before here. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t wholly support it.
So what’s left? Is it down to us women to do the work? Should we be more open universally and have a “I don’t care if you don’t like it – this is how it is with or without your consent” attitude about our relationships. I live in the UK and I’ve been seen by Parishioners out with ‘my’ priest at non church social events where it was clear we had come together even if they thought we weren’t an item and nobody has said anything to me or him and nobody has treated me any differently in a negative sense. Some have taken me on one side and said “I think the priest has a soft spot for you” but again not in a chastising way of “do not be found tempting him”. If anything some of them have asked me what they think his opinion would be on something or would I ask him something on their behalf. Like they see me and the way we are around each other as a useful intermediary.
I will be honest and say that there’s a lot of pride at stake here and the Church are extremely unlikely to back down in our lifetimes so for me and ‘my’ priest the back door exit is the only viable option if total honesty has to prevail or we want to live ‘openly’ but I can’t help feeling that if we all stood up to be counted – because I believe there are many women and men involved with priests all over the world – then it would be naturally overturned and overnight in terms of exposing the ludicrous nature of it. Our strength is that they have a really frightening issue with retaining existing priests and finding new ones. In the last 4 years we have gained 2 new priests in our Diocese but lost about 12 due to ill-health or retirement. They can’t really afford to get rid of errant priests in the UK or Ireland.
I would really like to hear what EVERYONE’S opinion on the above is as I’m really confused as to what the sensible, most effective way forward is.
It’s very difficult to say what is the way forward because most of the priests and women involved do not want to share their story…..the winner is the Church who continues to say that there only a few cases where priests are involved with women! This would be the biggest lie. I can testify because of many true stories (of which most of them I cannot publish on request of those who sent me the story). But let’s hear other readers what they have to say….
In the U.S, we solve the priest shortage by having missionary priests from countries with plentiful priests, come over for a few years. When they go back, we just get more. It’s the only way we are surviving the shortage. One parish I was in, the Pastor announced during Mass that the Associate Pastor was leaving the priesthood. He didn’t say why and he handed out paper and pens so the parishioners could write the leaving priest letters convincing him to come back and not leave. Talk about guilt.
I’m believing more and more all the time , that this is a numbers game.
Majority rules.
The more I observe the “circle ” I’ve been exposed to , the more I realize that most of them wouldn’t be the slightest bit interested in matrimony.
They’re forever content with their boys club.
They’re told to form healthy relationships,and if that admittedly excludes women , what does that leave?
As for parishioners, I really suspect they’re indifferent because they really don’t have a personal stake (or so they think)..
Most mindlessly follow the lead of the church. So if the church says celibacy is mandatory…than it must be true.
Aside from Divine intervention, at the end of the day , everyone is going to do what they do to get through.
I love to believe everything is simple…”follow your heart ”
However for those whose heart is torn(yes, we can love 2 at the same time),and when one has based his whole belief system that his one is The Lord…suddenly it isn’t so simple.
Add to that the enormous guilt piled on top, it,s little wonder why this is so messy on so many levels.
So yes , priests can love and not leave, and people will speculate and judge, either way.
Why don’t Priests stand-up and fight for an end to mandated celibacy? I am new to this blog and have not yet read why Priests do not advocate for an end. And they are really the most influential since it is they who are *directly* impacted. I am curious to hear their reasons.
Thank You!
Just a simple reason: a revolution is never started by people who are happy as they are!
In my diocese in the last year alone, we lost six due to retirement, 3 to death, 2 veteran pastors kicked out, and we ordained 3 new priests. The bishop keeps importing priests from Central America, Mexico, Colombia, India, Sri Lanka and Nigeria. We now have a Latin American priest at my parish, the parochial vicar, and he’s been in the USA 10 years. He still doesn’t speak very good English. No one can understand a thing he says in his homilies at the English language Masses. Otherwise, he’s a good priest, celebrates Mass very devoutly. But that’s the way it is here in the USA today, thanks to mandatory celibacy. Several of the born in the USA priests stopped maturing emotionally and sexually at the age of 21 and behave like teenage boys. Meanwhile, we have an absolutely excellent married deacon at my parish who gives outstanding homilies, celebrates a beautiful Communion service, and would make a fabulous pastor. But he’s married so no way will he be elevated to priest. When oh when will the hierarchy wake up and realize the sheer stupidity of mandatory celibacy? Maybe it’s easier to just keep closing churches instead of re-examining their stupid rule. If this keeps up, we sheep will be left without a shepherd, as has already happened in many places. Dumb, dumb, dumb! C’mon already Pope Francis and open your eyes to what’s going on and why the Church has a shortage of priests in the Western countries.
Let’s keep bugging them!
Actually the scriptures does speak of being celibate for the sake of God. As a devout catholic knowing what it takes for one to become a priest i stay clear of anything that would allow him to give up his vows.
I have been in sutuations where a priest said he would leave the priesthood to marry me. My response was i would join the convent the day you live the priesthood. If he left his vocation it would not be because of me. I gave him no hope.
My friend counsels priest who were transitioning from priest to married life. It is not easy as they continue to pour themselves out to people who come in search of help. Tge wives have to understand most don’t and feel neglected.
No where in scripture is it written that celibacy should be mandatory.
That is actually referenced as doctrine of the devil in Timothy.
As for transitioning, as the old adage goes …nothing great is ever easy!
Nothing worthwhile is ever easy either!
St Paul suggests celibacy, but then he adds, “it is better to marry than to live in lust.” (This is the message although it is not verbatim.) So even he saw the perils of a man living solo.
Marshmallow
Jen Tessa, how ironic that you could get your priest to want to leave the priesthood for you, but you didn’t want him to leave. And most of the women here want their priests to leave, but they won’t. Live is so funny that way. Life is hard for everyone–priests who have to transition, single people trying to survive, new parents with a sick child and on and on. It’s through struggles and suffering that we learn and grow and mature. We have to leave our comfort zones to grow into the best people we can be.
Maybe that’s why it was so easy to say!
Especially since she said she stayed clear of anything that may compromise his vows.
I meant to express that it’s easier sometimes to say we will do something, knowing the other has no interest.
Maybe the intent would be there, but he knows he won’t have to follow through.
Who knows?
You might very well be right.
hi fr daniel! i have a personal story i would like to submit. please let me know how to do so. thank you!
I wrote to you a private email. Please check your spam folder too. May God Bless you!
I have finally surrendered. He never felt anything even close for me,that I felt for him. Freedom now. ..