My name is Audrey. My priest’s name is Joe. I’ve had a massive crush on one of the younger priests at my parish for several years now (for the record, I’m 26 and he’s 31). A while back, I asked him to be my spiritual director, and since then, he’s answered many of my questions and concerns and helped me discern several personal issues I’ve been struggling with. On the surface, our relationship overall has been reasonably normal. However, I’m “secretly” absolutely head over heels for him, and it’s not solely because he’s a priest as I’ve never crushed on any other clergy (I work for the parish, so I know/have known/have interacted with many.) In fact, he’s the only person I’ve truly been attracted to in over 7 years.
Earlier this week, he and I were teasing each other, apart from a major difficulty I’ve been facing recently (my desire for power/control, facilitated by lust – which is directed at him [but i didn’t mention that bit]), and it led down some…rather spicy rabbit holes. I was caught off guard when he asked for details (again, I didn’t mention him in those details at that point), and he seemed intrigued by what I told him about various kinky fantasies I have, such as feeling an immensely pleasurable rush at the thought of choking someone [him]..although in retrospect he was probably searching for the reasons for the lust so we could work on resolving them. Needless to say, I answered with gusto, but, as you can imagine, my problem has gotten considerably worse because the conversation wildly prodded my lust-buttons. No joke at all. I had to restrain myself from leaping up and kissing (!) him there and then. Notwithstanding, I kept my cucumber coolness as well as I could, and our session ended with prayers as usual.
Armed with plenty of new, nasty thoughts, and eager to continue our discussion, I asked to see him a few days later. When we sat down in his house again, I was completely giddy, and my heart was pounding as I fidgeted nervously on the couch. I began by saying that I wanted to clarify some of the things we’d talked about the last time. I looked him dead in the eye and told him those crazy thoughts were all about him, and that I love him.
To my surprise, he wasn’t taken aback. He said he had known already. Friends, I’m not subtle, and I’m a flirt machine when I see somethin’ I like. Nonetheless, I fully expected him to tell me to leave and that we could never meet again – but, he said it was ok for me to stay as long as I promised to work on resolving my over-arching problems with control. He also candidly admitted that it’s “happened before” (?) and that, of course, he can never marry…which was amusing because I only said that I loved him, not that I wanted to marry him. But alas. we ended with prayers, and I audaciously asked for “a hug…just a small one?” he complied with palpable reluctance. It was so worth it.
That last session left me feeling enormously conflicted. I had initially assumed that, in my head, we had “broken up” and I’d to move on…but instead, it’s intensified my desire for him another hundredfold, fuelled by his continued offer to help me find peace (his own words.) I’ve seen him since then – at Mass a few times and reconciliation – and he doesn’t seem annoyed, disturbed or otherwise affronted by me. However, I feel that our dynamic has changed: we catch eyes more than we did before my affection-confession, but that’s probably just me being extra weird.
As with the rest of you ladies (and gents), I know this has been and continues to be an exercise in futility, and I would honestly be mortified to strip the Church of one of her priests (and an exceptional one at that), and yet, the selfish lasciviousness blazes on, and I can only look forward to the next time we have an uncomfortably awkward interaction.
I wish to thank our contributor for this week. Thanks to some people who are not afraid of sharing, we can move on in our spiritual journey. To you dear readers to discuss (peacefully) our last romantic story on this blog. Happy Reading!
Comes down to self control. An interesting point that we women forget is that the priests probably have MANY women love them over the years they are priests. Probably happens a lot with the younger, handsome ones. Probably regularly too. They probably have women love them who they don’t love back and they have to put up with having a woman parishioner giving them that kind of attention when they don’t want it. That would be annoying.
Roberta, that is a very good point. Many men in the position of priests must be in that situation, probably most of them; once our eyes are opened to the reality of how many women and priests relate to each other we can see this. A true loving relationship between a priest and a woman certainly happens sometimes, but it seems to me it must be a different situation. Still, every relationship is unique, just as people are.
One question comes to mind: are you trying to make this priest slip? I am not understanding at all why If you truly have lust issues, would you go see a priest that you clearly lust after? It boggles my mind to be honest. This makes me think of someone who is overweight, trying to lose weight, but decides they will work in a bakery… It doesn’t go well together, and her/his chances of losing weight are slim to none. I have a hard time wrapping my head around that…. Good luck in everything.
Doesn’t seem like he is taking the bait.
Finding something you weren’t looking for and falling in love with a priest is difficult enough, but honestly ,setting out on a quest to potentially arouse him doesn’t seem sincere and likely won’t amount to much.
Unfortunately, I think she is having fun with all of this. She enjoys tempting a man and the game of it.
I am glad to see I am not the only one reading it this way. Actually, there is nothing ‘pulling at heart strings’ or ‘sweet’ about this story. It actually upsets me. It upsets me how she ‘brags’ about her lust issues and how she wants him regardless of him wanting or not. It upsets me how she brags about ‘going after what she likes’, and about being flirtatious, and last but not least, about ‘looking forward to the next time they have an uncomfortably awkward interaction.”??!!! WTH. Omg. Sad. Your heart is not in the right place, and it’s not even a ‘whoops’ moment….
I have never been so direct, but I must say it: Sorry but you sound like a predator. He probably thinks he is helping you and maybe his heart is in the right place. But he doesn’t know what’s in your heart and mind. How can you brag like this?!! You don’t need our help or counsel or advice. You just wanted the stage to brag about your ‘plans’ (present and future).. Is that going to be one more feather in your hat when he slips? Can’t you see that he is not trying to win you over? omg.
Yes A, I read it that way too. I was trying was not to be too hard on her in my last comment but then after I posted it, I regretted not saying exactly what I thought. I am glad you were direct and I agree with everything you said. She does sound like a predator and I pray she stays far away from him from now on.
With you on this A. Words actually fail me. I’d have to say this reinforces what they are taught about women in the Seminary and risks tarring us all with the same brush. I’ve zero interest.
Hi Audrey. Firstly, I do not want to sound judgmental here, but why are you meeting with him in his house to discuss your sexual fantasies? If you absolutely feel that you must discuss this with him (personally I don’t think that’s a good idea at all), is there not somewhere else you could meet that would be safer for both of you?
I feel so sorry for that priest. I can not even imagine what went through his mind when he realized that the sexual fantasy about choking someone was about him! You put him in a terrible position but I think he handled it extremely well.
You are young and sound very passionate. But sometimes it takes maturity to handle these types of situations with less impulse and more forethought as to what the consequences of your actions may be to both of you.
My advise to you is to seek professional help elsewhere. If you love him as you say you do, perhaps it would be wise to not see this priest again until you get some help with your issues and you can use more self control, so as not to put him or yourself in jeopardy again. Perhaps in time, you find out if it really is meant to be, or if it is just a phase you are going through.
I am praying for you both. Take care.
I don’t want to judge. Maybe I’m jealous, because my priest treated me like a fallen woman when I never even hit on him, or told him how I felt. Why is hers so patient, and understanding?
I am sure she is not the first woman to hit on him!!! Priests are probably used to it and know how to handle flirtation. Some women enjoy trying to tempt a priest. It is a conquest.
From what she wrote I didn’t get the impression this was a love story. I didn’t get that there was a romantic interest from him, either. Perhaps, I read it incorrectly?
Unfortunately, as priests are human, their reactions to circumstances are not always perfect. I’m sorry you were treated as such, NUMRN; Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect.
Hugs.
It’s interesting reading your piece.Obviously you have encountered this before (not with a priest)but with a male.I would like to hear how you react once you have sex with them.Do you regress to a young child that’s looking for a father figure.Whats happens prior to your conquest is all a power play,quite exciting and a buzz.But following the conquest the low would be unbearable. Your not in love with this man. There are women on this site that love there priest deeply with respect and integrity for them. This is love addiction. You talk about power and your need for power/control. There is one who has all power.That is God.May you find him now.xx
Maybe I am wrong, but from what you have written about your priest in your posts, I sure don’t like your priest, NUMRN. Maybe it was the luckiest thing and a blessing from God that you didn’t end up with him.
Actually, we have a good relationship now. But I appreciate your input. Yes, he was mean, and now I know why. He was deflecting, and projecting his own guilt. I know this because something happened at Mass this Saturday. While on the altar, he looked at my leg, and became extremely aroused. (I was wearing pants. The Deacon delivered the sermon. He sat behind the Deacon, as he preached.) I saw his arousal. When he saw that I noticed, he became extremely embarrassed, and turned his body away from me. I now know why he closes his eyes when I’m around, and why he is hostile towards me. Seriously, if me just placing my foot on the kneeler, therefore extending my leg, got him that hot and bothered; no wonder he doesn’t want to be near me. I realize now that it has nothing to do with me. His hormones are out of control. He doesn’t trust himself. When he talks to me now, he is very caring….he just has a hard time looking at me.
I’m sorry but this response from NUMRN made me chuckle. You are saying that from a distance, you saw the ‘evidence’ through his layers of priestly vestments??!! Also that he had to turn his body away from you? I am trying to visualize this and I don’t see how it can happen if you are sitting in the pews with other parishioners… He can’t turn his body away from you or any parishioners. Priests at the altar or sitting anywhere in the front saying mass don’t have that option to turn their chair around…. In any event, after a day like I had today, thanks for the chuckle. 😀
He wasn’t wearing vestments. Just a tight robe with a sash. I was sitting front row. Yes I saw it. It wasn’t his job to preach that day. It was the deacon, and the new priest. For some reason the deacon pretty much ran the show. Plus his face was beat red, and his eyes were hooded. He looked smack dab at my leg. To make sure it was my leg, he saw, and not my mistake, I flexed it once. His head went back a bit. He was smiling. That’s when I knew. Funny, you get mad when people say stuff to you, but you are the first one to dish sarcasm out to me. I have no cause to lie. I was there, and you weren’t. You don’t know the layout of my church.
To continue, I was siting in the front row alone. He sat behind the deacon who was speaking at the podium. His podium was facing me. There in the center was the altar. On the other side of the altar was the priest. No one sat behind me. I was trying to explain to Jessica the forgiveness, and understanding I now have for my priest. Enough with the sarcasm, please.
Hey, I apologize, NUMRN. I wasn’t being sarcastic actually, I am just saying it made me chuckle because I can’t imagine seeing one at a distance like that and with layers on, or him turning his body away from you.
I questioned the exact same things as A, and am still skeptical. I also had a good chuckle when I read it because it does seem a little farfetched. Sorry if you are offended but I don’t believe it either.
Audrey makes it clear love came first and lust second. So she is trying to win the heart of someone she is in love with him. And it’s normal to be physically attracted to someone you love romantically, the two things go in tandem. It is this attraction she’s labelling as ‘lust’.
My impression is he too is enjoying her attention, otherwise – according to the rules they are to abide by – he should by now have referred her to another priest for spiritual counseling, but he hasn’t and does not seem to intend to do so.
He’s a man….
if “he was enjoying it” he would respond accordingly .
Nikki, they are doing the counseling at his(!!!) house. That alone is a sign he is not uninterested, otherwise that would have to take place in the parish offices and, even there, not behind a closed door. Besides, he has admitted he knew all along that she was in love with him, and yet persisted to see her again and again, and at his(!!!) house. He may not be in love, but he seems to like flirting or at least to be curious to see how far he can walk near the fire and play with it. If he had no sort of interest whatsoever in what is going on, he would by now have declined to go on any further with the counseling.
Maybe she isn’t his type..
I thought that too. Or he is gay, so is unaffected by her advances.
There you go. And since a lot of priests are gay, the chances are very good that he is and that’s why she is not affecting him. Not to be rude, but she is really making a fool of herself if that is the case.
honestly, if he’s gay…that’d be awesome! a huge relief, i mean. it would pretty much confirm that there’s no purpose to this, and it would be much easier for my mind to let “us” go. i also wouldn’t feel foolish at all – it’s not as though homosexuality is blatantly obvious in most people.
I don’t know, but this feature story lacks the romance of *early* love and respectful passion.
As women, we have witnessed generations of women throughout the world be at the mercy of men with this very same attitude; an attitude that is demeaning and *frankly* nothing but sexual harassment. And as women, we need to expect better from our sister; the Priest~ actually no man~ deserves this.
Closing Concern To The Feature Writer: If you are for real, please, take care of yourself; the *choking* coupled with control issues call for mental health intervention by a practicing psychologist or psychiatrist.
Take Care~
Marshmallow
She also said that she works in a parish so I assume she believes in God and loves Him?
you are correct!
Dear Audrey,,your story is way different than any i have ever read. It seems you have a good relationship with your priest,Joe. But,,since you are so young,,,you see this crush as a flirt game. He is 31,,well,,all i can say,,is we all better stick together and end this man made stupidity rule of theirs of mandatory celibacy. This is the ”killer”!!! I know pope francis is leaving it all up to big sharks bishops and cardinals to vote for optional celibacy next year on the upcoming october 2018 synod. But,,those sharks are out for control on priests as they have been for the past 1000 years. They will never let in,,”optional celibacy.” It’s up to us..we the society the people of the church..to set up a petition,,we all sign and send it to pope francis himself!! This blog is great and all,,for support,,because we really can’t tell the world we are in love with priests!!!! But,,it’s just hiding..we are not doing anything with the actual ”killer” itself. We can help eachother and our priests,,,by,signing petitons to end forced celibacy and to bring in..”free choice.” This is our only solution!!! Blessings to you and your priest.
I believe you NUMRN; most emphatically so, because I have experienced the very same *issue*!
Men can surely exhibit other symptoms of arousal beyond *pitching a tent.* And, at my church, the Celebrant can (and without prompted by arousal) most certainly turn away from looking at his people; it is done often at my church, ie facing the *Liturgical East* a positioning of the Presider’s Chair that Cardinal Robert Sarah~ as Prefect Of The Congregation For Divine Worship~ has promoted as an option to Celebrants.
I hope *things* with your Priest continue to improve. May God Bless You, NUMRN.
Marshmallow
And, I forgot to include, that for the Celebrant to change position and face the Liturgical East and *not his people*, he just needs to turn his body, not even the entire Presider’s Chair. It has been done for over a year at my church.
I do not believe you are exaggerating one iota, NUMRN!
Marshmallow
Dear Fr Daniel please could I have your email address. Wanted to write to you personally.
I’ve sent you a private email. Please check your spam folder too.
May God Bless you!
thank you for posting my story. i apologize to all who have read and commented – yes, i know i was being very creepy, perhaps even predatory. i’ve talked to him for counseling once since i wrote this story (i submitted it in early october), but i purposefully avoided any uncomfortable topics, until he brought up love in the last few minutes of our meeting.
i’d like to talk to a third party soon for advice on how to detach myself from joe; however, i’ve come to realize that under the surface of lust, there truly is a deep, genuine love and desire to be with him. i think my anger is absolutely an expression of my frustration at never having a chance, and the fact that he doesn’t avoid me makes me even more frustrated (and the frustration motivates me to interact with him more, and the cycle perpetuates!)
for what it’s worth, he was absent from the parish all summer to go on a retreat and teach some classes. i desperately tried to tell myself i was “over” him, but lamely enough, i fell into one of the worst depressions i’ve ever experienced. when he came back, i was both elated and doubly annoyed because i knew i’d be chasing the carrot with extra gusto.
i pray about this so much, every day. it’s agonizing, falling in love for the first time in many, many years…and of course, it has to be with a priest. and as much as i know i should let it go, a big part of me believes that this is somehow meant to be, and letting go would just throw me back into the ol’ pit of despair. c’est la vie!
(also, fr daniel graciously changed our ages. but i’m a bit older. i’ve experienced quite a lot of drama in my life…but this is certainly one of the more interesting bits, lol)
I’ll pray for you too !
Being that your feelings don’t seem reciprocated, whatever the reason , I feel you would really benefit from neutral, non -church counselling.
Joe’s advising you may just stem from empathy, or maybe he finds it all intriguing , but I think just the fact he’s a male he would have revealed his attraction to you on some level.
He may just be feeding his ego.
If he’s not really helping you ,and making you more confused, you should seek help elsewhere.
My advice would be to stop going to him for counseling and go to a lay counselor instead. Also I would stop going to this parish and try to go to a different one. The only way to really get over someone is to totally avoid them. No seeing them, no talking to them, no calls, no texts, etc. Also, I think it is very strange the way he counsels you at his home. Try to distract yourself from thinking about him. Get busy with other things and interests. Volunteer in your new parish. Meet other lay men. May God help you!
thank you rose. i work at the parish, though i’m seriously considering quitting and moving to a different state…but at the same time, i also enjoy the awkward tension i have with fr joe, however fruitless it may be, because it’s given me the most intense feelings i’ve had (about -anything-) in over 7 years. i feel human again, and nothing else has made me feel this way! maybe i’m just a masochist at heart
Awkward tension isn’t love….
If your clinging to that , do yourself a favour and seek the help you say you need.
Sometimes we get hooked because of the rush we get from it all. We are bored and need some excitement in our lives. The problem is that it’s like being addicted to drugs. The high is great, but then has to come the crash. It’s just not worth it. The problem is that you work at the parish and can’t get away from him. Maybe the best you can do is just try to avoid him as much as you can, and try to not talk to him unless you really have to? Also pray for self-control over your thoughts and actions.
Fr. Daniel, can you please clarify what you meant by your comment at the end of the latest article:
“To you dear readers to discuss (peacefully) our last romantic story on this blog. “
What did you mean by “last romantic story”? Were you referring to the previous story or are you trying to say there will be no more stories?
Am I missing something? Can you please clear that up for me? Thank you.
It means the latest in the series. I hope there will be more stories but it depends on our readers!
Okay, Good! Thank you for clarifying Fr. Daniel.
My name is Veronica. My priests name is Peter.We met in 2013. He was the parish priest up until 2016. I started counselling with him because I was separating fro my husband. I developed feeling for him.We have a lot in common. We kept in touch via email. I moved away and asked him to visit me ,to which he replied he would.When I suggested a date to visit me he never answered me. Some time passed and I went on a pilgrimage. I bumped into him on the pilgrimage by pure coincidence. When we came home I emailed him again asking to come out to see me.He replied that he visit me. The thing is I am really confused. If he doesnt want a relationship on an intimate level,why is he proposing to visit a woman on her own. And also why is he saying he will visit me if he feels nothing for me.I feel very deeply for him
I can say for him he was defiantly attracted to me,however he always had a better handle on it than me.What is he playing at? Can Some one help me.
Thanks
He is already showing signs of immaturity. I would simply cancel him from my memory and move on.
Despite how much we may be attracted to a Priest~ or even believe we love one~ the majority of these relationships are “Cast the woman out, reel her in.” They are also quite adept at telling us what we want to hear, but that is conditional. Genuine commitment is almost non-existent from a Priest, and there is *typically* little to no sacrifice coming from one to make a relationship progress toward a “normal,” barrier-free relationship.
My apology, I will take some flack for saying how it really is, but there is just no nicer way to respond to the risk for hurt and abandonment that is involved in being attracted to a Priest. Growing relationships are two-sided, equally invested and require more than lip service.
Marshmallow
Marshmallow, you got that right, for sure, for the majority of them! Although there are a few real exceptions, like Fr. Daniel and Fr. Patrick who wrote his story here.
Marshmallow thanks for the response. To be honest it’s taken me this long to get to this place,mainly because I didn’t think this was a power game. The last email made me sick to my stomach. I would have respected him more if he said that it wouldn’t be appropriate to call to see a woman alone. But this giving me hope is shocking. I really couldn’t see it because I thought so much of him.
Run like the wind. You have nothing but grief and heartache and suffering ahead if you pursue this relationship.
I think that many of us are lonely and we latch onto a priest we like because he is single, nice, and we see him regularly at Mass. And he may be the only single, nice man we know.
That seems very sad.
There are many nice single men , and some priests are not so nice.
And I would bet just as many ppl on here met someone they were not even looking for.
“Love will find a way”
You are absolutely right Nikki. My priest told me recently that he never imagined that he would fall in love with a parishioner, never mind that he would fall in love so deeply that his life would be turned upside down (in a good way). He said he certainly was not looking to find a woman to love, but his life changed forever when I walked through the door.
I also did not go to the church looking for that kind of love. But I knew from the moment that I met him, that there was something special about this man, and I was going to be with him, priest or not. It took us both by surprise and some days it’s still hard to imagine how this could have happened.
I also realize that I am very blessed to have found this wonderful man. Of course, there are many challenges because he is a priest, but in our case “Love DID find a way”.
I do think that you are right as well though Rose. There are women who see a priest as a catch and take it as a challenge to try to turn his head. There are also women out there who seek the attention of a man in authority, a man who seemly has it all together with a stable career, a man who is seemly pure, innocent and inexperienced. They think they can “teach him a thing or two”. There are women who find this very attractive. Ironically, I recently had a conversation about that very topic, with a friend who doesn’t know about my priest and I. I was surprised (and a bit angry) when she described how she was drawn to my priest because of those same traits.
When I look at my priest and see the kind of man he is, I realize that there are just as many women out there who prey on priests, as there are priests who prey on women. Perhaps more.
Nikki, your last sentence is what happened to me. I was not looking for him, just casual friends through a family member who was a priest (now deceased). He called ME when he got into trouble and then it escalated. I was not looking for any kind of relationship with him at all.
Just a thought–how do you know that you are the only one in love with your priest? Might be surprised to learn that other parishioner women are in love with the same priest.
Roberta, I would not be surprised if I am not the only woman in love with my priest. He is a kind, gentle, wonderful man. The thing is, I know that he loves ME, and that’s all that matters to me.
Rose, that’s an interesting point. I think especially applicable to *older* women. But, looking back, I wish I had taken better charge of my emotions.
Loving a Priest ain’t for sissies!
Yes for sure. I’m thinking now that he couldn’t let go of the power he had over me,anymore than I could let go of waiting for him.. Not a good cycle to get caught up.in.It isn’t loneliness with me. I have a few men pursuing me,but no one ever came close to what I felt for him. I am also thinking now that he had to remove himself from the situation also. They stepped him down from being parish priest and has semi moved also.
We have to be compassionate to ourselves and forgive ourselves of our mistakes in the past. Even Protestant young women are having trouble finding good, Christian men to marry. Just goggle it. It is very interesting to read.
Marshmallow, double dittos on taking better charge of emotions! I’m doing OK now, most of the time. Hope you are too. When I get emotional flare-ups, I drive to our Adoration Chapel and just sit there in front of the Blessed Sacrament for an hour, two hours, however long it takes for me to be my normal self again. My pastor teased me for practically living in the Chapel and suggested I might want to bring a blanket and pillow, some water and food if I’m going to move in. Ha! But nothing in the world beats the consolation I get from Jesus Himself.
That’s what Jesus wants–not for us to be addicted and obsessed with a man, but only with Him.
Angelfish you seen to have a lovely relationship with your priest. How do you manage to keep your relationship private. Yr priest seems mature in himself. I read your words carefully, about how neither of you were looking. I love that he allows himself to love you.
Hi Veronica. We do have a lovely relationship. Just like any relationship, it is a work in progress. It was difficult for a long with all of the guilt from both of us, but just recently we realized that we couldn’t deny our love for each other so we decided to embrace it (at least when we have the opportunity to be alone together).
He is mature both in years and in emotional intelligence. It also took him a long time to learn how to give and receive love, but now he does it freely. He just recently told me that he loved me for the first time and that brought on many discussions about how to move forward because in his words “Now there is no turning back”.
In the beginning we weren’t as careful as we are now and it was incredibly stressful trying to keep it a secret. We had a long discussion about how best to keep us both safe from prying eyes and wagging tongues and to try to keep our integrity intact.
For a while now, when we see each other at the church, it is strictly business. There is nothing between us that doesn’t happen with any other parishioner….nothing that would give anyone cause to think there is anything more going on between us.
He recently asked me to come to the rectory to show him how to do something on his computer and it was really awkward being near him in his home and yet not being able to act like we normally do when we are alone together. We were both very stressed about that. It’s funny……I was sitting in his office updating his computer and one of the elders of the church came and knocked on the door and then walked right in. She just happened to need to talk to him at that very moment. We all laughed because she obviously checked to see if we were fully clothed and that nothing was going on. When she was satisfied that it was all okay, she firmly took him by the hand and led him back to the church. All three of us had a good laugh about it the next week after Mass.
We only “see” each other far away from our community on his days off. Sometimes that makes me really sad because I miss him so much when we’re not together. I would love to be able to show everyone that this wonderful man and I are together and we love each other, but that is not in the plans. There just is no choice right now. He is very near to retirement and we don’t want to jeopardize his life’s work with a scandal. I’m not sure how his retirement will effect us, but I don’t think much will change. So for right now, we are both cherish the times we have together and are grateful for this love we have been given.
We always have choices , it really comes down to where our true devotion is.
Our words and actions need to go hand in hand or we are really not being real with ourselves or God.
I take full responsibility for everything I am doing, but no, I don’t think we have choices. I feel in my heart that God brought us together for a reason and I think it is because we are both stronger and better together. I don’t think that God would tell my priest that “it is Angelfish or me; you can’t love us both”. I may be naive, but I don’t think God wants us to be apart and heartbroken, going through the motions of life knowing what we gave up. I pray for answers and guidance every single day and have been since I met my priest. I honestly believe that if God wanted me to leave my priest alone so he could better serve Him, he would have led us to that by now. So until He gives us a sign to change what we are doing, I will trust that we are okay. I also believe the only reason we have to keep our love secret is because of a ridiculous man-made rule, not because God doesn’t want us to love each other.
Angelfish, is your priest going to leave and marry you?
No Rose he will not. And I will never ask him to. He is a wonderful priest and he loves the priesthood. I love him dearly and want what is best for him. We have discussed this and he has said he would consider it, but I know it would break his heart and his spirit to leave. He feels like many of us and would love to be able to continue to be a priest and be allowed to marry the woman he loves. He has been a priest his entire adult life. As Father Daniel has often said, Once a priest – always a priest. Even when he is retired he will still not be allowed to marry and will continue to serve God and God’s people. So no, unless they allow married priesthood in the next couple of years, we will likely never marry. It makes my heart hurt to write this, but this is our reality.
If he leaves when he is receiving his pension (ie older than 60 years), he might be risking of losing that too! That is how he would be treated by ‘mother’ church!
I too believe that God brings ppl together for great love as well as great lessons.
And it’s also very difficult to accept that if God truly wanted those to be together, they would absolutely be together in the way he intended inspite of man made rules or especially because of the false doctrine that it is.
Just because we don’t like the choices, doesn’t mean we don’t have them.
Everyone is worthy of living a life full of love and any gift given by God should shine as glory to Him.
I completely believe that Fr. Daniel.
I’ve witnessed first hand this so called ” mercy” they subject their “brothers” to.
Relentless!
They are all terror stories!!!
Angelfish , keep praying and trusting God, as we believe
nothing is impossible with Him.
He shows us His power in many ways , miracles happen all the time .
If this is Gods will ,He will make a way for you two to be together
Hold on to your faith , stay close to Jesus and it will all be okay.
I can almost guarantee that there are parishioners who suspect there is something going on between the two of you. It’s hard to hide the look of love in a person’s eyes. Just hoping that someone doesn’t say something to his bishop. Be really careful.
I fully agree….one day or another someone is going to find out. Remember that some people don’t have a life! They simply spend their lives spying on others!!!
@Daniel: what?!!! But that’s not fair or right! Can you imagine if in secular life, one would forfeit his/her pension if they decided to change careers!? That wouldn’t fly. Why does that fly? 😦
Soooo many restrictions and risks … it’s no wonder priests think double and triple when and if they think of leaving… I hate to say it, but almost sounds like a ‘trap’ , and a trap that should be written in big bold letters for transparency sake to all candidates entering the seminary: “enter priesthood at your own risk — we are not responsible for your feelings of loneliness, thoughts that we are unfair with you, desire to leave, desire to be with a woman, desire to ‘cheat’ the system, feelings of misery, etc. Sad sad sad… Gosh, makes me grateful for the freedom I have to change careers and live my life freely as an adult should….
Will our civil courts accept it? If yes, will he have a fair trial?
It’s like the Pax Romana….there was ‘peace’ in the Roman Empire for the new countries coming in…..on one condition: to submit their will to Rome!
That’s right Fr. Daniel. My priest said that there is no doubt in his mind that he would lose his pension. Then what would he do? He would be too old to look for another job and is too proud to accept help from me. He would be devastated that he worked his whole life and then everything to do with his priesthood would be taken away from him.
I don’t think leaving is ever easy. I know it can be done, but not in our case. Perhaps 20 years ago, but not now at his age.
That’s the church dealing with rebellion……..sorry for the harsh word!
With a capital T…
When they become aware,many times by the priest himself because of feelings of guilt, they go to extreme tactics to keep him “in”.
There is no doubt in me that they are trapped, made to believe they “owe” their community.
It’s re-in forced over and over and over again that this was God’s calling for them……
So much guilt and manipulation.
So many succumb, and choose to stay.
Some made live a double life , and others honour their decision…..
Either way it takes a toll on their soul.
So much unnecessary turmoil over a man made, anti -scriptural “rule”.
Very well written down! Well done Nikki!
Thank you S for the kind words of encouragement. Even though my priest and I have been together for a long time, and I wouldn’t trade this love for the world, as we all know, it is very difficult to love a priest. There are many challenges, and your kindness makes it a little easier. May God bless you.
Yes Jessica. The fear of being found out is a constant dark shadow over us.
Angelfish, it’s a shame that your priest won’t accept your financial help. That way he could leave and have money to live on, if his pension is stopped. Or if you got married, your money would be his too, and he wouldn’t have to worry about finding a job and all of that and you could both live happily ever after.
Ok but some men would never take advantage of the situation…..I mean not all men would be happy not to work and to live on someone else!
Thanks to you Fr. Daniel!
Acknowledgement of what many have to endure and the heart wrenching choices many have to make , is an appreciated testimony to why it’s so very important we never lose sight of why mandatory celibacy is so destructive.
Rose, thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, the financial concerns are only one small component of why my priest shouldn’t leave the priesthood. Don’t get me wrong..He has told me several times that he loves me so much that he will leave if I ask him to. I support him 100% in whatever he decides, because I know what a drastic effect it will have on his life and his well-being.
He has been a priest for approximately 40 years. He doesn’t know any other life besides the priesthood. He is very connected with his parishioners and very involved. He is like all the priests that I know; he is a priest 24 hours a day. He is loving and approachable and gets calls at all hours of the night and accepts them with no hesitation because he is so passionate about what he does. He will be retiring in less than 2 years and has already planned to continue his ministry, but on a scaled down level.
I can’t imagine him letting go of all of that. He would feel useless, with no purpose, if he left. Not to mention the scandal it would cause in our communities (he is Pastor of 3 rural parishes, and has been for more than 11 years, and has become very dear to many of his parishioners, especially the elderly ones).
I, myself, am very resentful of the whole situation. It is like A said; why should he have to give up a pension that he worked his whole life for? Why should he give up his life’s work, his parishioners, his passion for his ministry, his drive to care for those who need him, his pride and joy, his legacy……all because he found a true and great love?
It’s not fair, and some days I feel like shouting from the rooftops.
But instead, we will both continue to do the best we can with what we have, because we don’t want to tarnish or lose what he has worked so very hard for all these years.
(Sorry about the long comments everyone, but I get very worked up when I think of how our priests are mistreated and HELD HOSTAGE by the higher-ups.)
You are a very mature woman, Angelfish! You love him so much that you are prepared to live alone so as not to disturb his outer and inner peace! Wow……not a common thing!
Thank you Fr. Daniel. And thank you for your patience as I get these things off my chest and vent about how unfairly our priests are treated with this antiquated mandatory celibacy rule. May God bless you. 🙂
I speak from experience. After 18 years of working without pay, I left empty handed! Besides when I tried to register at a local office for employment, I was asked why I didn’t work for 18 years !!!
Fr. Daniel, but why are there no protests about this kind of unfair treatment? Did you try to protest or complain?
It’s like talking to the wind. Another thing: at that moment, one can’t protest as the priest is vulnerable from many points of view. I remember myself, I needed time for myself. I always gave time to the others. At that moment, it dawned on me that I needed to think about my life, my future etc…..it’s so hard for a priest who has spent his life working, thinking, helping others…….
@ Daniel: without pay? My priest told me he was paid according to the number of masses, liturgies, etc, he would do….? Isn’t it the same everywhere? From another priest, I had heard that they get a ‘yearly’ salary….
Well the religious priests (eg Franciscans, Domenicans, Carmelites etc..) who live in a community, make a vow of poverty. So if they earn money, they give it to the community. Normally they would earn a pocket money (monthly). So if one decides to leave, practically he is without money. He can’t rent or buy any property. Maybe a true friend will give him a flat for some months for free, or else to be paid after getting his first ‘job’. In any case, there aren’t many people to help the priest, especially the first months.
Angelfish,
I have to thank -you for revealing once again there really are no cookie cutter responses when dealing with affairs of the heart.
While your choice wouldn’t be the route I would choose , you have resolved to make it work.
For me, your story has emphasized how much my man loves me and me him by taking a different path.
Love truly has many different facets.
No matter the path , no doubt our loves are real and pure.
Bottom line….the church has to follow the true teachings of our Lord and Savior.
Blessings.
Thanks Nikki. Blessings to you and your priest as well.
My priest is paid an annual salary. His pension is based on what the parishes bring in, so it fluctuates.
Nikki, if you don’t mind me asking, is your man a priest? And did he leave the priesthood? I am interested to know how the path you chose is different from mine. Thanks Nikki.
@Daniel. Oh, ok, true. I forgot about that. (religious order priests vs diocesan priests)
The news is out!!!!!! More details on our next article on Monday 6th November! Most newspaper are simply quoting each other…..
A case of O-M-G!!! Wow! :O
Hi Angelfish,
Yes,he is a priest.
Like yourself, I know with every fibre of my being that God brought us together.
I just had no idea the depth this would impact our lives.
There is a knowing in our souls that we are and always will be connected.
I’m not willing to divulge details, mainly because he doesn’t want me to, and secondly I know for a fact his “associates ” troll these pages.
He remains in the priesthood alter a lengthy period of inner conflict and confusion, which his superiors label “his crisis ”
The lengths they went to pull him back in are in my opinion shameful.
It may come across as complicit, but he really was left with no other choice, for all the reasons previously mentioned (finances, skills , age etc. ) as well he has accepted that he has chosen God ultimately.
I don’t see that way of course, and believe in his heart and soul he knows his real truth.
This was heart wrenching for both of us, but the love has survived, “they” can’t destroy it!
He is true to his decision and I am an all or nothing kind of girl, so seeing each other on the side isn’t an option for us.
But I so “get” your love Angelfish, whatever feels right for all of us is exactly the path we should take.
Whichever path that is, the comman bond is that forced celibacy, forced decisions, renouncing love in “the name of God” is so very wrong on every level.
So I will always, with all my passion because of my love for a priest, never give up on this cause.
Love always finds a way!!!
Blessings.
Sincerely I wouldn’t cope with loving a ‘ghost’….but everybody walks his/her own personal journey.
Nikki~
How are you able to keep so positive about your relationship? I read your comments and admire your resiliency. I, too, am an “all or nothing girl” who believes in a transparent relationship (for me) and was the one who put the brakes on, but my Priest’s retaliation has been nearly unbearable. You are so very accepting of your Priest’s choice and able to move on. Has your break-up been a long-time ago? Did he want a secret relationship? Do you see him yet? Do you avoid him? Your situation is very unique; your response is admirable, indeed!
I don’t know if you are in the USA, but in America our Priests do not lose their benefits if they leave including their Pension since retirement benefits earned are never lost and are protected by Federal Law. Also Pensions are not managed by Dioceses but rather outside companies that do Plan Administrations and cannot be used as punishment, leverage etc like years ago. The Priest just has to be 65 before any payments are made *or* if he rolls over the Pension into another investment. A Priest’s retirement is further fortified by a monthly Social Security payment. So in the USA, the Pension piece carries little weight in these relationships.
This is all so messy, and in the USA a Priest can even take a Sabbatical. Coupled with that, the *culture* in my area is very permissive for a Priest to leave. So there is truly no reason a Priest would keep a woman “on-the-side” unless he wanted both worlds.
I understand if you do not want to say much, but I could really use tips on how to wrap my head around my situation. Like yours, I know my Priest loves me to the depth of his being. But, it really does not matter if his commitment is to the Priesthood.
Thank you for any tips.
~Marshmallow
Even in Europe, there is a system where one pays for his pension throughout his working life. Yet, not all dioceses do it! Besides when it comes to Religious priests, they are still lead in the dark with the excuse of the vow of poverty! This is another reform which has yet to take place in the church! Who’s the Pope who is going to touch these sensitive areas (because when it comes to money, it’s always a sensitive area in the church!!) ?
Yes, I will never give up the cause of mandatory celibacy because ive known what it is to share love with a priest ,but I didn’t mean to imply for my own circumstance , only because I loved one.
I was with someone else when we met and will be again with God’s grace.
That is another reason , being on the side would never work for me.
But my love for him will never vanish.
Oh Nikki. I am so sorry. That sounds so incredibly painful and frustrating. I wish there was something I could do to help you.
It is so sad that the priests who are supposed to spread God’s love are forbidden to show the special love between a man and a woman. It is also sad that the women who love priests are also silenced because we want to protect them and not make things harder for them by speaking out in their defense.
Although we made different choices, I totally understand how you can not have a relationship on the side. It is so very difficult to live with the guilt, fear, and paranoia that comes with hiding your relationship. But being apart from him is overwhelmingly heartbreaking as well.
I hope and pray that this is resolved very soon so you can fully enjoy your priest. And that we can all stop wasting time and energy on trying to change the mandatory celibacy rule, and start to focus on loving and supporting our priests in the work that they do.
Nikki, please know that you are in my thoughts and prayers. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It is sometimes difficult to write down what you are going through. For me, there were many tears when I saw my situation and my feelings laid out there in front of me as I was typing.
It is somehow comforting to know that I am not alone in my feelings and frustrations. I am so happy to learn that there are so many women who have a priest that loves them as much as they love their priest. Taking into account the uniqueness of our personal situations, it is a validation that we are all doing the best that we can, while working toward a common goal……we are a united front!
Hi Angelfish,
Thank you for your thoughts and sentiments.
Indeed we have taken different courses, neither less heart breaking than the other ,but as you stated we are united in love.
Even though we are not “together “,I don’t regret one choice that I’ve made and certainly have not an ounce of bitterness.
God not only gave me great love; but even more this love has steered me on a quest for the knowledge of truth according to His Word.
Trying to make sense of God’s true intentions of celibacy and coming to realize how the church has twisted this, was the catalyst for me.
This has been life changing in the most profound way.
I have great love and gratitude and no doubt this will bring more love to me.
God’s plans for us will prevail and putting him first I know I will receive the desires in my heart.
Love is the greatest force in the universe and what Blessings we have received.
You and your man are in my prayers.
Love and Blessings always
Xx
* I should clarify….I have no bitterness with respect to our love.
The church is a different story.
Thanks Nikki. Loving a priest can be very hard on your heart and your emotions at times. It is very important that we support each other here so that we can make this journey a little less difficult.
May God bless you and your priest. 🙂
Thank you, Angelfish, for your unbridled feedback from my Saturday, 5 November 2017, 5:49p comment; please allow me to expound.
To make this blog an *all-positive* and sanitized platform~ with its mission to support the roll back of mandatory Celibacy~ it requires a change in tenor accomplished by limiting its feature story to only those *successful* Priest-Lady relationships. As it stands, far more compassion and understanding is extended the Priests than the very women they have wounded who come here looking for support. Sharing one’s story on this world-wide blog is courageous, and too often, women have been trivialized, mocked, doubted and judged while the ungodly Priest behavior is white-washed.
That said, is it possible to see the gravity of the heartbreak women in love with a Priest *typically* experience? (*Typical* as it relates to this blog.) Loving a Priest is not like an ordinary man; a Priest is an extraordinary man. After all, much has been given him as a called and ordained servant of our Lord. I believe it is safe to say that before our falling in love with our Priest, he held another place in our life.
These were significant places in our life: He celebrated our Mass; he heard our Confession, married our children. He baptized our grandchildren; buried our parents. All pivotal events. So pivotal, that when the Priest responds to a woman’s love with mind games, abuse, sexual inappropriateness, harassment, stalking, gossip and other inexcusable behaviors, our wounds took on much deeper scars; a polar extreme from the Sacraments and other Ministry comforts they had administered to us for years.
As Jesus clearly said in Luke, “For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required.” Our Priest has been given much in life; the Sacraments, the Mass and a plethora of opportunity including our love. It is not, then, unreasonable to hold them accountable to their *State*. This has nothing to do with the loving Priest-Lady relationships but all to do with acknowledging the harm that too many women have lived. Our hurt in no way compromises or is it a threat to your loving relationship with a Priest, nor is it an impediment to reversing mandatory Celibacy.
Please look with gratitude for all you have, especially the happiness you share with your Priest, Angelfish; you have been blessed. I consider you and all of us that come here “Women of God,” so please stay grounded in your loving relationship, and try to extend compassion to those of us who have suffered greatly. You are using hostility to divide us when we are all on this road together.
~Marshmallow
Wow…. Your priest is so understanding…. He never said this love thing is sin…. You can’t love me… Like dialogue…. Too cool….
He also told you that you it’s OK till don’t work on your feelings… Nice man…. I like your priest.. Dear don’t work on your feelings… Love or lust any damn feelings…. Bcoz they are not worth it…. They never have the courage to admit their feelings…. But surely they will lead you.. Go on….. And last one day.. They are like.. Oh shit!!!! This can’t be done… We are not do anything thing more…I’m a priest….. Then we left heart broken… We some how move on…. Then months later they come back… We fools accept them back…. Months later same thing happened again… They gone… Later they come back again for our love sake accept them again in life…. Same routine…. But I know this time ….I don’t want him again…. Never gonna accept him again in my life..
But I know he was and always be my love…. But don’t want him on my life….
So true honey.
Yes, it often comes down to–the bad times outweigh the good times, and it’s just not worth it. There are more bad times than good times. We can love someone, but not be able to have a successful relationship with them.
Correct dear….. But it happens like that we are so hurt in our break up..In my case I just wanted to that pain goes away…. So when he comes back I accepted him open handed… I thought that my love bought him back….. Stupid me….. He just feeling lonely.. I know thats why he come back to me.. And there is no love.. I never know their hot and cold behavior… 2 nd time I had gut feeling that he might come back to me…. He came… 2nd time it didn’t hurt much like first time… It was our 3rd time… I miss him…. I miss our chats….
I don’t know he will ever come back….
In regard to Fr. Daniel’s comment to Jessica that some people spend their lives spying on others and Angel Fish and her priest will eventually be “outed” by one of these busybodies, that may happen sooner or later. The busybodies are living amongst us. I had to chew one of them out this past weekend. I belong to a secular religious order and am on the council. During our meeting we were discussing the progress of candidates. One of the officers, older woman, remarked that one male candidate did not get in line to receive Communion at our monthly Mass and therefore something is wrong, he is probably in a state of mortal sin, and we should examine him about this. Whew, I nearly lost it, and told her somewhat harshly that it is none of our business if someone doesn’t receive Communion, there are all sorts of reasons. And I also told her that we have no business watching who gets in line for Communion. Total silence. But yes, Fr. Daniel, they are out there present in our parishes watching every move that people make, especially if they are filled with envy and jealously over particular fellow parishioners. And it’s not just limited to women. Some men are notorious busybody gossips too. And from my own observations, some of the very worst offenders are parish secretaries, especially when the secretary thinks she owns the pastor.
thanks for sharing your experience.
BrokenHeart, are you a Secular Franciscan? I am one.
Rose, yes, OFS for several decades now.
How wonderful. Hello my sister.
Angelfish, just be careful. It’s not unheard of for a parishioner to secretly follow a priest if she is suspicious.
Anyway, today with Facebook, a whole generation of people spend their time stalking others……..so it’s not just for suspicions about priests!!!
Hi Jessica. We are always very careful, but there is always the nagging feeling that our love could be exposed at any moment. It is true that you can’t hide that kind of love, and we are very close to many of the parishioners, so they likely suspect something. I don’t think we have to worry about many of them, as they would be happy for us, but there are the busybodies who would make life miserable for us. There is at least one in each parish that my priest is concerned about.
Isn’t it ridiculous that we have to live under this constant fear because he is a priest and not allowed to marry?
My priest has said that he very much wants peace and to avoid a scandal, but if we are found out he will do everything in his power to bring change for the younger priests. At that point he will have nothing more to lose, so he will no longer be silent about this.
If we are exposed we will shout it from the rooftops, and I will be by his side every step of the way.
So if you hear about a huge scandal in rural Canada, that is likely us. 🙂
didn’t know there were canadians on here….
I guess it shouldn’t surprise me, since we are from all over the place….
Yes A. There are at least 2 of us. Both Cat and I are “Canucks”. She is from the East and I live in the West now, but we grew up in the same province.
Ok Angelfish.
In my experience not only are there spying busy-bodies who have nothing better to do than watch what other people do at church and in Mass and then accuse, gossip and complain, but they also always blame the woman. It does not matter what a priest did or does to seduce you, the woman is seen as the “evil temptress” who must have caused the priest to stray from his vows. Someone here said above to be careful, and yes to that for sure, because people like that will try to make sure that the woman in these situations is judged, criticized, and crushed. I have read of situations where nearly entire parishes have turned on a woman and shunned her, forcing her out and making her life a living hell. Be careful, indeed. Careers and friendships can be severely harmed by just one person gossiping. Unfortunately this does happen. I also know it from personal experience.
Ruth125, I’m sorry that you know it from personal experience. What a shame that people have to be so cruel.
My priest is very concerned about how I will be treated if this all comes out. I am not as concerned as he is. I am not ashamed of our love.
What really bothers me is how people will take what is between my priest and I – something so beautiful, – and make it seem ugly and dirty. That will break my heart.
Hey Daniel (or Fr. Daniel) would you mind emailing me? I’m thinking about sharing my story, but I want to ask you some questions first!
I’ve just written an email. Please check your spam folder too. May God Bless you!
Pope Francis has reportedly requested that married men in Brazil be allowed to become priests – a controversial move likely to prompt a backlash from conservatives in the Catholic Church
The issue will now be discussed and a vote by bishops in the South American country could now vote on the issue.
The President of the Episcopal Commission for the Amazon, Cardinal Cludio Hummes, reportedly asked the pontiff to consider the move because there is a shortage of ordained ministers in the Amazon’s remote communities.
Saw this written in the Independent news.
Perhaps a first step?!?
Yes, the future is here! I have posted a link already. Let’s keep praying and spreading the word.
I see this as the “tip of the iceberg ”
Lots of prayers!!!
Fr. Daniel, you remarked that the people still in the Church do not see eye to eye with the current pope and that his supporters have mostly left the Church. But there are those of us, a lot of us hidden, who are IN the Church, active practicing Catholics, who don’t necessarily agree with a lot of the things the pope has done (like the confusion in Amoris Laetecia which has generated conflict among the bishops regarding Communion for the remarried), and yet we would support the pope in his efforts to increase the number of good priests, ordaining married deacons and changing the mandatory celibacy rule. I myself am NOT a fan of Pope Francis as he says too many contradictory things, BUT I support 100% his efforts to begin revoking the stupid celibacy rule, as do most of the people who are on your blog. Most of my friends though are conservative Catholics (as I am generally), and whenever I bring up the subject of voluntary celibacy with them, they first have a shocked look on their face that i would be in favor of something “so horrible” as a married priesthood, and then argue in favor of the mandatory celibacy rule, even though they are all married themselves and supposedly know the joys of having a spouse. They use the standard arguments of the priest must be always available 24/7, he was ordained to love everyone in the parish, etc., ad nauseum. I point out that mandatory celibacy is unnatural, violating the natural law, and that in Genesis God said “it is not good for the man to be alone.” Ecclesiastes points out that “a two-ply cord is not easily broken.” Many of the priests I know are in favor of making celibacy voluntary as they see their brother priests try to compensate for the lack of love in their lives by indulging in various vices, such as alcohol, porn, worldly pursuits. I think the RC clergy, if allowed to vote on the issue confidentially, would vote in favor of voluntary celibacy. So too might a large proportion of the laity. It’s the very conservative laity who would yell and scream and the people participating in the traditional Latin Mass would probably go running off to join the Society of St. Pius X. So YES, go Pope Francis and change the stupid manmade rule that makes slaves out of diocesan priests and leaves us laity with a severe shortage of good priests.
Sincerely I can’t understand why you find Pope Francis confusing. Well he is trying to create a space for discussion in the church (not only regarding celibacy). Secondly, regarding sexuality (Amoris Laetitia), he is saying what the common people have been saying all along….let’s focus on relationships more than on morality!
In the Catholic church we tend to label ‘confusing’ all that challenges our ideas! Why are we so reluctant for change? Is it because it threatens our well being? Because we have to admit that some teaching (that we observed all our life) needed not an update, but a radical change?
Father Daniel can you please give me your opinion? If you had to take an educated guess…how many years until the option of married priesthood would be implemented around the world? Approximately 5, 10, 20, more?
It’s very difficult to say with precision the number of years……but I’m sure that it will happen. I’m studying the reaction of the Europeans (+Western culture) to the events in Brazil. If many people react positively to the news, it might happen sooner than later. But reading the news of some Catholic agencies, they ‘forgot’ to mention the news of what the Pope said to the Brazilian bishops!!!
Thanks Father Daniel. Well, in any case…..I will continue to hope and pray that it happens soon enough for my priest and I to enjoy it.
Sure isn’t fair if he only lets the priests in Brazil be married.
Most probably he is very cunning. He is starting in Brazil in order not to have a lot of opposition. When the dust settles down he might introduce married priests elsewhere! Once the concept is in, there is not stopping it. The problem (as usual), is that the people who support this pope have left the Church! So those remaining, most probably won’t see eye to eye with the present Pope!
Time to let the lay Catholics vote!
Brazil and South America in general have the greatest shortage of Priests worldwide which most likely explains this recent proposal from Francis. Also, Priests in South America are the most flagrant in their opposition to Celibacy, and who knows this state of affairs (no pun intended) better than Pope Francis. A Priest fathering children *and* in relationship to the mother is rampant in South American; it is not hidden and the people support their Priest.
I wonder if the Celibacy tradition is reversed beyond Brazil, how will current Priests respond to dating; will they have different *eyes* for their Parishioners; how will Parishes adapt to the changing social life of their Priest; will the Parish busy-bodies and the *ultra-traditionalists* create helter-skelter, and how will Parishes respond in their financial support of the Priest?
Celibacy lifted will be an enormous change on many levels.
Everything will fall into place. Let’s not forget the role of faith.
Now reading it in a few different news sources!
Where does Celibacy begin, and where does it end?
~Marshmallow
@ Angelfish. I know exactly how you feel. Yesterday my priest took me out for lunch but we had to go to some obscure place and even as we parked the car he told me “I’d love to grab hold of you but there are people about so we can’t”. He meant put his arm around me or hold my hand or even look like a couple at the table. I had to act as though I was out with a business associate (although our laughter might have given us away – we just can’t help enjoying being together). But I hate this constant vigilance. And I hate hearing him misquoted amongst Parishioners but unable to correct them because “who would I be to speak for him???”. When we were back in the privacy of his house I told him I’d rather bring food to the house in future and sit comfortably at his table. It is only people who are missing something in their own lives that wish to spoil someone else’s. As we walked across the car park 5 feet from each other I just thought “how sad he has to live his life like this”. It is truly a human rights issue. If scandal hits Canada then I’m coming to help you fight for this to be changed. It’s sooooo wrong. I love hearing about the two of you though – so nice to hear a happy story. I hope you grow to a place where he wants to take on the fight without the need for a scandal to start it. All my love to you both from all the way over here in the UK. xx
MM…..Thank you so much for the support. I also enjoy reading your comments as there is so much that I can relate to, as well as getting a different perspective on some similar scenarios.
I agree about the violation of human rights, just like taking away a pension that a priest worked their entire life for is a violation of human rights. It is appalling that this is happening in 2017.
Our relationship is not without it’s challenges, but we are extremely happy to have found each other. That is why, after much discussion with my priest, I decided to share parts of our story – so that people know that despite the difficulties of the situation, it is possible to have a happy, thriving, loving and reciprocal relationship with a priest.
My priest and I have had many discussions about how people always automatically view a relationship with a priest negatively. Why can’t they see that priests are human and deserve love just like anyone else? When we share our positive stories here, it will help people to come to realize that a relationship with a priest is very often something other than a fling, an elicit affair, or a priest using a parishioner. My priest and I were both reluctant to share our story because of the possibility of hurtful negative comments in response to our story. But he convinced me that no matter what anyone else says, they can never take away from the love that we have for each other, so their negative comments are of no consequence to us.
In fact, my priest is considering writing an article on this blog about our story from his point of view in the hopes that it will help show priests in a more positive light. He was upset when he read some of the comments about priests in previous articles and wants women to know that priests are not “all in one basket”. He certainly does not condone or participate in that kind of behaviour toward women and does NOT believe it is reflective of the majority of priests. But I am hoping he will put his thoughts into writing for you.
My priest is a very private and guarded person, but I hope he will see that the good that it can do far outweighs the fear, if he just steps out of his comfort zone a bit and writes an article here. It was difficult for me to open up about our situation at first, but I have found it extremely liberating and almost therapeutic to put our story into writing and I hope he will find it does the same for him.
I think we need to hear from some men on this blog, especially priests. It would help us to know what their thought processes are when they encounter love from a parishioner.I am always very happy when Fr. Daniel comments, as it gives some insight into the male point of view.
wow, that would be wonderful…..having comments from a male (priest) point of view. Looking forward to have that article! May God Bless you both!
Wow, Angelfish, I am all eyes, that would be groundbreaking, the best thing ever one on this blog could wish for. Thank you so much!
It was very kind of you to share your story, and I say thank you. It is always so good and heartwarming to hear the positive love stories that come to this blog.
Unfortunately, the loving stories are few and far between here; a reality that should not be minimized. The feature stories of this blog are all tragedies~ typically well-steeped in emotional abuse and inappropriate sexual mores. The lines within the blog are not much better. Inexcusable, abhorrent behavior from Priests is far more prevalent than honest, loving, committed Priest partners.
Relationships between a Priest and a woman *that come to this blog* having positive outcomes are nearly non-existent. As fact, we can probably count on one hand the number of healthy, loving relationships that visit this blog. And yes, this brings to the blog a very dark and negative spirit *if* we are not making excuses for these Priests and not deluding each other.
Sad to say, but *The Church* always seems to win.
~Marshmallow
Thanks everyone. I will do my best to convince my priest to write the article. May God bless you all.
We’re waiting!
If we have people like you (who CLAIM to love a priest) always pointing out the negatives about our priests, how are we ever supposed to convince anyone to help us to support our priests by helping fight for married priesthood?
If every time we start to shine a more positive light on the good, loving priests, and someone like you comes in an diverts attention from them, to the not so good priests, who is going to care about the good loving ones?
Absolutely no one is going to care about the plight of the good priests and the women who love them, when people like you constantly remind everyone about the few bad apples.
Is there anyone else who is as annoyed by this attitude as I am?
I am glad that Marshmallow chimes in. Her voice of reason and reality shines a light on the fact that many of the relationships between priest and woman are less than desirable. Her voices points us towards the proof of what having to live a life in the shadows and secrets will do to a relationship; What it turns a person into. I imagine half of the priests who are confronted about loving a woman wouldn’t run and abandon the woman they love if not for the fear of what the institution can do to them. We need the reality of her words to remind us that change is indeed needed: Why there are people fighting for priests to marry. So no, I’m not annoyed. I’m thankful.
Thank you, Annie. You are the voice of experience. I have replied to both Angelfish and Broken-Heart since I
have NEVER made sweeping statements that all Priests are bad,
inept, etc. Those were manufactured
and attributed to me.
The Priests that are *typical* to these blog are not fit for a relationship *or*
the Priesthood.
Thank you for understanding the risk that a woman faces loving a Priest.
– Marshmallow
Angelfish, I too am annoyed by the attitude like you are. I don’t want to keep hearing how bad the priests are in general. I want to hear about the loving relationships that do work out, like yours.
Thanks BrokenHeart.
Every time I read these type of comments it reminds me of how too many narrow minded, ignorant people think that there are no good Catholic priests and that all priests are pedophiles. These types of comments on this blog only perpetuate this type of thinking. It paints ALL priests as social misfits who can’t think, feel, or behave like other human beings. It also makes it sound like the women in the relationship never have the freedom to leave and are somehow held against their will and made to endure this kind of behaviour.
It is extremely frustrating when we work so hard to dispel the misconceptions about priests & the women who love them (for example by dozens of positive posts), and then we have someone constantly destroying our progress by spewing this rubbish.
You don’t have to be in love with a priest to read this blog. It is read by many in the church as well as lay people, so think of how priests are being portrayed on here. Do you think anyone who has a say, will defend the priests right to married priesthood when they are all thought of as abusers who display “inexcusable abhorrent” behaviour?
This is not helping us move toward eliminating mandatory celibacy, but hindering our progress and making people believe priests don’t deserve this choice.
It feels very disrespectful to me. I guess some people just want to continue to be bitter, resentful, and unhappy and can’t stand to see anyone else feel otherwise. So when they see stories of happy relationships with priests, they have to rain on everyone’s parade.
It’s extremely frustrating.
We are not exaggerating at all. These are facts. Most of the priests do abuse women and use them for their own needs. The few successful stories maybe are not ready to share their stories….if you know of more successful stories we’ll be very pleased to publish them (+ consent from the authors).
Being transparent or publishing what others want to hide is becoming very important for the world today especially after the publication of Paradise Papers. How about having the same thing about the Catholic Church, not only concerning money but other important issues as well…..?!
Angelfish , what is God speaking to your heart about you and your priest and the love you share , that’s all that matters . No one can know how God moves in each of our lives , that’s between
Us and Him. What people say and feel is ok too,everyone has their own opinion but it’s choosing to follow the path God has brought you to and growing in your faith that I believe is more important than anything . Once you get to that point where Jesus is first and everything to you is where the greatest peace and hope await , never give up your hope .
Love & Prayers
I have no doubt in my mind that there are many, many priests out there who mistreat women. I don’t think anyone on here is under the delusion that all priests are pure, innocent loving men. I think we are smart enough to know by the comments from the women on here who are genuinely looking for advice, that this is a huge problem.
But please explain to me how this is helping us by making it sound like there is no hope for a loving relationship with a priest. I agree with BrokenHeart, I don’t want to keep hearing how priests are bad in general. It feels like a slap in the face to the good priests and the women who love them.
It is like if a political party who is campaigning for election, keeps reminding everyone of the bad people in their party and the crimes and sins that they have committed. Who is going to vote for them? I feel like if we continue this in our own group, no one is going to see the message that we are trying to convey – that we want our priests to have the choice to marry. It will once again be hidden in the shadow of the reputation of the bad priests.
I am fairly certain that I am not the only one who feels this way.
I have NEVER written or verbalized that Priests are bad in general. I have said how bad the majority of Priest behavior in this BLOG is disrespectful and abusive; the blog headline story
features this backed up by the horrible
casualties women describe here. To dat, there are maybe five respectable relationships we read about on this blog.
I have a number of decades-long personal friendships with Priests as well as thirty-five years of working with
Priests. NEVER have I lumped any
number of Priests in a sweeping statement of disregard or blemished their life work or social matters. This has been manufactured by a woman who perhaps is just not as secure with her Priest as she has led us to believe.
-Marshmallow
Overall I think we need to look at the bigger picture.We all (well most of us) advocate married priest good.What I have witnessed on this blog is women becoming involved with priests on general. Some relationships have progressed but what I read is also the ones that have not. The whole situation of celibacy is difficult. I’m not saying that there aren’t any graces that arise from it.Im just saying that in general it’s a big ask for human beings to not have physical connections. Unless your evolved to a spiritual state that this need is not important. The impact of trying to live this life brings the hot/cold behaviour,and non commitment most of the time. Not withstanding the ones that are neglectful or abusive,which you come across in all walks of life. Prayer and guidance is the only thing.xx.
@ Marshmallow
Thanks for your comments.
The simple answer is love…mutual, all consuming love.
This is a love I’ve never known before.
I know I have his heart, but after an extremely agonizing period of time he has chosen to honor his first commitment.
Do I agree with it ?….Not in the slightest, but I truly love this man with no conditions.
We are both in the US, and I have to say his superiors and confreres were anything but permissive with the possibility of him leaving.
I’ve said before that they pulled out all the stops to “keep him in “.
Major guilt and manipulation….relentless.
He is a religious order priest, so there is no pension, they “take care of each other ”
We are always in touch, but are not “together “.
No surprize they have moved him around (different venues), but I never we will always be connected.
Do I wish things were different, yes!, but I won’t put my life on hold, I will follow the path the good Lord has intended for me.
I’m a huge believer in destiny, so who knows where it may lead.
I also believe the concept that the more we try to hold on to something we are afraid to lose, the more we are pushing it away.
Everything will work out as it’s supposed to, overthinking creates fear and ruins love.
I wish we could all just choose love, including him.
Life would be so much better !
Parting advice, accept it as it is, not how you want it to be:)
Blessings
X
Oh, gosh Nikki, such a beautiful response; you are a woman of enormous love and sage wisdom; thank you. I am so happy to hear you keep contact with your Priest yet; good news!
I thought the *Orders* were beyond keeping its clergy destitute *forcing* the Religious to be completely dependent financially? That is a TRAVESTY; a poignant testimony to the violation of Human Rights. For him to leave is~ I can now see~ nearly insurmountable for that reason alone. And the pressure-cooking of your Priest, YIKES! You so deserve to be together, Nikki. He is a prisoner to his Order and a victim of thought reform. I agree that God brought you to him; I bet your loving heart brings him much joy and is a reprieve from that archaic life. He is truly blessed to have you. Although you to two are not together *yet*, I believe it will happen; it is a beautiful love that continues to live on. Prayers for both of you.
I will hold tight to your advice; “the more we hold onto something we are afraid to lose, the more we are pushing it away” and “accept it as it is not how I want it to be.” I needed to hear those words.
Someday I am hoping to share my story; we had the start to a great love story, and it is quite different from what has ever posted here. I am waiting for the Holy Spirit to give me a nudge 🙂
Thank you, again, for taking the time to share and offer sound tutelage; I have tucked it into my heart.
~Marshmallow
Marshmallow, yes we should all let the Holy Spirit guide us.
You will know from within when the time is right.
I do believe he will never be the same again, love changes all of us, in fact many times love rescues us!
We all have to figure things out for ourselves.
We should know we have made the right choice by how it feels. Choice based on our truth shouldn’t feel unsettling and if it does perhaps some more introspection is needed.
For now , let us focus on love with great hope.
And let’s keep our repeal of mandatory celibacy alive , even if it’s just because of someone we once loved
True love never dies!
Thank you, Nikki, well said! Please know I greatly appreciate your insight.
And…if *we* can’t get mandatory Celibacy lifted, let’s stand united for those women who have a loving, respectful and reciprocal relationship with a Priest.
~Marshmallow
The Priest I know, has asked that I meet him for lunch tomorrow………….. me thinks his about to face me and make a fake apology so I will forget that in reality the man is a liar, a user, abuser, fake priest…………. on my timeline it comes up without me looking what he has commented on certain of his facebook friends posts, well this man who told me a few weeks ago, that HE HAS NEVER DONE THESE THINGS BEFORE, IT WAS TOTALLY OUT OF CHARACTER, HE NEEDED TO GO AND REST TO PROCESS HIS BEHAVIOR, HE WILL BE KEEPING AWAY FROM ALL WOMAN IN THE FUTURE, he does this through quiet and prayer, well besides been constantly on whatsapp, his constantly on facebook as well…………….. I never doubt patterns, in no less than ten posts, he is telling woman who are my eldest sons age, about 24 under their profile pictures posted HOW BEAUTIFUL THEY ARE, THEN HE GOES ON TO TRY AND MAKE CONVERSATION WITH THEM………. the man is a liar………. his fake and in time sad reality I realise now I will need to expose him……. his in his sixties, he preys on vulnerable woman and I was one of them and when his done with them he uses the same old line THAT HE HAS NEVER ENGAGED IN SUCH BEHAVIOR before, the man is a expert for a person who went into the priesthood at age sixteen……… REALITY ONE NEEDS TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST ABUSE AND BREAK THE SILENCE. It is not out of revenge it is just the right thing to do……… Those Priests who claim to love the woman and remain in the Priesthood, even if there were one hundred reasons not to be with her, if you loved the woman enough you would find one to be with her……….. that is what woman who come to their defense need to realise, yes they are brainwashed but the reality is if they really wanted to be with you they would be………. the one I know he would not know LOVE if it stuck him right in his eye, up his nose, he knows the meaning of two things LUST AND LIES