Finally we have another true and interesting story between priests and a woman. Please read carefully. We have to remember that we are not gods. There is no room for judging. Hopefully it will enlighten other women to come forward with their story. Our blog’s main aim is to tell more people that what happened in secrecy to your private and personal life, is not just you. There are so many others who out of shame, they don’t trust to share their story. We are changing names in order to protect one’s identity. Please remember that our duty is to support our writer in various ways such as writing our response or to pray for her in our daily prayers.
I am Chloe. I want to present my story.
One New Year’s Eve, I prayed to God to bring the right man into my life. On, January 3, while in church, on the Feast of the Epiphany, I experienced a spiritual anomaly. As the priest shook my hand a white stream of light pierced my soul, and the priest had a white light around his eyes. Bewildered, I complained to God, explaining to him, that we have rules down here, and surely he was wrong. This non-relationship lasted for over a two year period and was exclusively a spiritual connection. I had planned to relocate and I did. When I went back to visit, I was aware that parishioners treated me differently. Eventually, he quit the priesthood and I waited, and waited. Eventually, I protected myself from the spiritual connect. The next thing I knew he was parked on the street outside my house. Days and days, until neighbors noticed. I was uncomfortable with this behavior. Why didn’t he knock on my door? If he had courage, I would probably be with him today. However, it is a perfect example of the immaturity of a priest. He left and went back home. I expected that he would get married, but he never did. That was priest #1.
Priest #2. I was in church, and when our eyes met, I knew that he had a crush on me. A spiritual revelation. Within a week, he took a vacation and was transferred in a month. But not before telling “who knows who” because I started getting “the look”. There was no spiritual connection and that is the end of the story.
Before I get to priest #3, let me say that I have been living my life, going to work, going to church and no one is interested in dating me. Not one non-clerical man has asked me on a date. Nor, was there a man that I saw, priest or not, that “turned my head.” I have not pursued any dating sites, nor have I been unhappy about it. I felt that love was in my past.
Priest #3: New priest to the parish. I ran into him in a store, I introduced myself, and we exchanged pleasantries, and went our individual ways. A couple of aisles later, my impulse was to go back to him. I shook my head, amazed at my desire. It was in the spirit. I dismissed it. Years went by, and we would chat, and from time to time he would act odd. He would often appear in my path. A quick exchange. One Christmas we hugged, a bear hug, and I could feel his spirit jumping and mine as well. He held me a couple of beats too long, but it was nice. Perplexing.
Years later, I had a reading of hearts and I knew that he had love for me. I ran. But this man grabbed my soul and has not let go. This exchange has been all-encompassing. The feelings of love are mutual. He too told and I got “the look”. He confronted Priest #2 and only I saw his fury.
I want to share this and I am hoping that someone else has had an experience similar to mine. I have so many questions. Why #1, #2, and #3? I hold things in my heart, private things, similar to how Mary held things in her heart. I don’t have an agenda, only to walk in God’s will. I get frightened. I am uncomfortable in church. I worry that I am being deceived. Am I sane? But, then faith comes back and I know that Jesus loves me. Never the less, the back and forth between doubt and faith is exhausting. Plus, it is just bazaar and secretive. No one with whom I can share. Many, many negatives. Only the love is the constant, but it can’t be dismissed either.
Hi Chloe
Your stories were interesting and humorous at times. I met my priest in 2013 and only that I have experienced what you speak about in your blog,I wouldn’t have believed. This connection took me over and I have been living with it ever since. The name of this post outlines how priests play with women’s emotions.
My priest doesn’t want to let me go but tries his best to keep me at a distance.
I communicate with him on WhatsApp. I have asked him to dinner on the 30th and he won’t answer me. What’s wrong with a simple yes or no? Hence playing with my emotions.
I wear this attachment loudly now. I love him with all my heart,but I am no longer subject to the highs and lows.
So I recently started to minister(Eucharistic minister) in another church and I see the priest looking at me a few times. On Sunday at the alter he said ‘you stand with me in the centre and he then sent another minister to the side.
So it comes down to meeting needs at whatever level they can. They play yo yo with you to get a romantic need met at some level.
That isn’t to say there arnt the courages priests that don’t hide beside WhatsApp and emails and discuss it at a mixture level. I wish you well Chloe.
Lucy
Please can I have your email address, I have my story to tell.
I’ve sent you a private email. Please check your spam folder too! May God Bless you!
Lucy~
You nailed it with “…meeting needs at whatever level they can.” Never thought of it that way, but it surely explains the *unusual* attraction behaviors priests show us unlike men in “world”.
And, coming here we see the same patterns from around the world.
Glad you aren’t on the roller coaster; I am happy to be off that ride as well.
~Marshmallow
Exactly! They are thinking only of themselves and getting their needs met. True love thinks of the other person more than themselves. The priests really are being selfish. And they let the women go on for years loving them while they make no commitment. It’s mostly all about them. Most of them would really make terrible, selfish husbands.
Sorry a few typo mistakes in my blog.
I wear this attachment lightly now
Some priests can discuss at a mature level
Some priests don’t hide behind WhatsApp or email
I think your heading is very wrong, this doesn’t appear to be a cold and calculated act on playing with a woman’s feelings. These Priests seemed just as confused at their feelings.
I agree Ana….and I am not even sure that these priests were feeling what is being stated. The more I remain on this thread, the more I think their is absolutely things missing.
Hello Chloe~
Welcome! Please know I would like to support you in your journey… but, I know nothing about spiritual connections with a priest as you describe.
With #3, are you able to share more of where you are in this relationship; ie examples of the feeling of your mutual love, what happened with priest #2~ meaning, what did #3 to encounter him? Why did he encounter #2?
I understand this is difficult and unlike any other life experience.
Blessings~
~Marshmallow
Cloe!!! Hello!!! My name is Mary. I just read your great story. First of all..don’t feel like you are weird or insane,,,just because you innocently fall for priests. I know how you feel. First of all..priests are men,,it’s the church that forces them to forget they are men the moment they become priests. For the church they are just ”walking brainwashed robots.” Oh..and the people..they are the ones who are weird!! They too with their old fashion mentality think of their priest as just a ”robot” with no human feelings. Don’t fear them..they are just envious that a priest looks at us!! For God’s sakes they are men!! They too feel lonely just as we do. You are just like me..we fall for priests,, because we grew up very shelterd. We are very devouted catholics. My number one best friend in my life is Jesus!!! So I guess when we see a priest..especially a young handsome one…we fall for them..for they represent Jesus!! But..let me tell you..centuries ago roman catholic priests were free to choose whether they wanted to remain celibate or to marry. Then came the ”big money business” in the vatican!!! They did not want priests to have any heirs..when priests past away,,they had to give all their inheritances and pocessions to the church!! With forced celibacy on them..they have ruined the church!!! The very first christian priests were the disciples of Jesus..whom were married!! The very first Pope,,st.Peter..was a married pope. Let’s pray for the upcoming synod this October..God willing..this man made junk mandatory celibacy will finally be rid of!!! Time for our church to go back to its’ ”original roots” of ”optional celibacy.” Pope Francis and past popes keep beating around the bush and don’t realize the ”culprit” is this..”mandatory ceibacy” on priests that has ruined the catholic church. Now,,instead of just abolishing mandatory celibacy,,,he says he wants to introduce..married men priests!! But..leaving the celibate ones..always in” chains” of mandatory celibacy!!! That isn’t fair to the celibate priests!!! Plus,,how many elderly married men with grown children..already have a job..would want to pick up a big responsibility to become a priest???????? Not many!!! Well..let’s pray we will have a ”miracle” in October!!!! Back to…”optional celibacy.” The only way to save the sinking ship of the church!!!!! I grew up in California ,very sheltered!! I too,,never had any dates there. Just school..work and church!!! Then when I came here to live in Italy ,,my home town ..almost 13 years ago this coming November,,,I met a wonderful Italian priest!! Yes!! it was love at first sight for me and for him!!! I detest the church for the sadness it has caused me and for him for the past 13 years!!!! Only Jesus knows the sadness in my heart…for loving a man that we are not able to show our love for eachother!!! I’m sick and tired of living all alone …waiting for him!! But,,for me he is so worth it…I know God will turn this suffering into a happy ending!! I pray not only for me and for him..but for you and all other women in the same boat as I am. Regarding priest number one and two…they seem to me very confused..like not knowing what they want out of their lives. He moved back home!! He sounds like a big mamma’s boy!!!! You hang in there!!! If you need to talk..write to me anytime. Many blessings!!!! Mary.
Just a thought–maybe those kind of sudden feelings and lights etc are temptations from the devil to confuse the recipients. As Catholics, we know that the devil does tempt people in all sorts of ways. And I think I read that if a person feels confusion, lack of peace etc, that is from the devil. I am thinking that with Chloe since it happened with 3 priests already. But what do I know? An even more deep thought–maybe all of our attractions to our priests were from the devil too. After all, nothing good came out of these relationships for most of us–nothing but confusion, lack of peace, troubles, bad times. Just a thought.
Seeing the devil everywhere won’t solve the problem. This is one of the answers given by the Church in order not to do an internal reflection. How about reflecting on the church itself? If this has been happening in practically all the countries of the world, is the Holy Spirit telling us something about the church and its practice of celibacy?
That is true, but at the same time, being attracted to a priest has, for the most part, been very detrimental to both the woman and the priest. So many women on this blog have wasted years and years of their lives, and gone through a lot of torment, over the attraction. I wonder if all that negative stuff is coming from the Lord. But like I said, I don’t know, but it is something to think about.
Great!!! Answer!! Fr. Daniel!!! God gave his people” free choice,,” the church as used their” free choice” for centuries to control priests!!! While they have done this..they also ruined the church!!! Yes..of course the ugly evil one is laughing with all the dirty sex scandals of the roman catholic church!!!!
Could not agree more father Daniel!!
Absolutely.
Without any sensationalizing or scandalizing, what is the Holy Spirit telling us?
Hello!
Did you women ever wonder why priests are attracted to us and we are attracted to priests?
It happened to me that more than one priest wanted me. Have you thought which mechanisms work behind all that?
No Mary.
Enlighten us?
Interesting comment, Mary… You got me thinking.
I, too, had two other priests (before this last tragic one) very interested in me. They were both very kind and loyal priests one my age, and the other twenty years older at the time. One diocesan priest, one a monk.
When I say interested, the first two were not mongrels looking to get laid like the last one; I was also quite young and naïve, but feisty and independent. There was no animosity or ugliness from the first two, just innocent flirting. And really innocent. I was happily married at the time, and I just brushed it off.
The third one~ the tragedy~ not so. He was looking for “love without strings attached”~ his words. And when I said no, he went on a rampage unlike anything I had ever experienced. Truly evil.
That said, I wonder if other women present as “independent, self-sufficient”? I have always been and that might have been attractive enough for an avowed celibate: a *safe* woman.
What do you think?
~Marshmallow
PS~ Hopefully PromiseCAN will weigh-in; she has a very solid and unique point-of-reference for these *attractions*.
Hi Marshmallow,
I am financially independent…I have a great job and own my own home. I don’t need anything from anyone and I’m not interested in getting married. That’s probably why my priest loves me so much. I don’t make any demands on him. We really just enjoy each other’s company. So, I’m safe too… 🙂
I have read about that, and some articles say that it’s because the priest is “unavailable” and that is attractive to a woman who deep down doesn’t want a proper relationship. And then if she shows interest in the priest, he is flattered and starts getting interested in her. If you look up, “why are women attracted to priests,” on the internet, there are good articles that come up.
I like ice cream, but I don’t like every flavor of ice cream. Why? I don’t know, one would think ice cream is ice cream is ice cream, what difference should the flavor make? Yet it does. I don’t care for mocha flavor ice cream. I can eat it but the experience of eating mocha flavor ice cream over say chocolate is vastly different.
I am sure there is a scientist out there in some lab trying to figure out why I prefer chocolate ice cream over mocha, trying to figure out why the flavor of ice cream changes my experience with it, but right now that cannot be explain– theories yes, but explained definitely no.
So if as a race of beings we cannot figure why we like one food over another and why some dislike mocha ice cream while others love it, can you imagine how impossible it is to explain, what attracts us to some people over others, and why out of all those people we “fall in love” with just one– and two people falling in love with each other at the same time- given all the choices out there and complexities of their whole life- it is almost miraculous– but everyday, people are meeting and falling in love that is seems common place, but it really is a miracle it happens at all.
But I can say this about attraction it is neither good or evil. It simply is. A gun is simply a gun. It can be used to protect you or someone you love. It can be used to kill something for food or it could be used to threaten someone in doing something they wouldn’t do, like giving you all their money, or it can be used to murder someone, either in the moment, or planned out deliberately.
It is not the gun that is good or evil, it is how it is used. Owning a gun will not force me to go out and kill someone– a gun cannot tempt me, what tempts me is my own desires, my own heart. If I go out and use that gun to kill someone — it was something in me that made that choice, the gun may have made it easier to do, if I didn’t have it, but in the end, the gun is not to blame.
An attraction like the gun, may make it easier for something inside us to come to the surface, to reveal itself, but neither God nor devil put it inside you. But in general I would say, in these cases, God allows us to discover what that something is, in order to free of us from it, heal us or to bring us more into His son’s image. The devil will exploit this something to hurt God. The devil has no real interest in any of us, he only wants to hurt God, to stick it him and he uses our fallen nature in that mission, but the devil cannot force you to do anything you do not want to do.
As the reasons why women are attracted to more than one priest, or why priests are attracted to the women in their parishes. My basic theory on that is availability. When I was in school ( high school and university) I was attracted to many male teachers and professors. After I left the school environment I was never attracted to another teacher. So was I attracted to “teachers” or were I attracted to men who were teachers because those were the men I spend most of my time with. If I left school and refused to date or get involved with someone who wasn’t a teacher, then yes, I might have a thing for teachers, but in generally, we can only be attracted to those we meet.
If you are a highly devoted Catholic women, deeply involved in your parish and the RCC, then chances are you are going to run into a priest or two, and spend more time with them, than the average parishioner who shows up once a week for an hour.
Likewise with priests, most are not going out of the parish or the RCC to look for women to hook up with– some are, but most are not, so the chances of them meeting and becoming attracted to a parishioner or lay person is higher for their vocation, than it would be for a lawyer, who can go out to bars, and dating sites to look for love– it is the availability factor, more than the collar that is at play.
So odds are, these highly devoted Catholic women, and these priests are going to bumped into one another more often than not– and since both love God or else neither would doing what they were doing, they already shared a mutual love for God and all things RCC, which is a pretty good place to start a relationship on–which explains why many of our stories here, sound the same, and why one woman might find many different priests interested in her. That is my best guess on that situation- but in end it might come down to what flavor of ice cream you like best.
Let me clarify two points about my comment dated June 25. Attraction isn’t just about sexual attraction or romance. Say I can go to a grocery store twice in the same day. The first cashier I instantly feel comfortable with and I talked with her and tell things she probably doesn’t need to know, but for whatever reason I am relaxed in her presence. Later I have a different cashier and this one I am polite to but very formal with. Why? What’s the difference? I am the same person, I could make small talk with anyone I choose, so what made me choose to do so with cashier 1 over cashier 2? This is what I call the mysterious force of attraction.
Chloe is describing it as a force outside herself. A lot of people describe it that way when it comes being attracted to someone of the opposite sex. Some call it love at first sight. I remember in the novel “The Godfather” the author use the term ” the thunderbolt”. So I cannot tell her with 100 percent certainty her experience isn’t real because as I stated in my first comment we as a race of beings we haven’t figured it all out yet. My experience and most therapists would say it is more likely inside of us rather than outside of us.
But as I stated the force whether in us or out of us, just is, what you do with it will determine whether it was “good” or “evil”. It is how you use it that counts. My experience and understanding is more you think something is happening to you, the more one believes they have no control or rather they have no choice the greater the likelihood one can be manipulated and exploited– whether by devil or by human being, which brings me to my second point.
In my June 25th comment I was referring to attractions that are sincere, honest and natural,- organic to the state of being human. All human beings experience attraction. However, there are those who know how to feign attraction to get something they want. So there are priests out there who “groom” women in order to have sex with them. They will use attraction, God, their sex appeal, their charm, whatever to slowly but surely convince a woman to have sex with them. And this is why I worry whenever I hear women use words like they can’t help themselves, or the priest is grabbing them in.
Research has shown those who see themselves as having little choice,these are the people who tend to be victims of violent crime, sexual assault, abuse in all forms, join cults more often than those who have a strong sense of self determination.
It isn’t so much about self worth, believing one deserves better, it about feeling powerless to change things. If a man hits me, if I have a sense of self determination I will know I do not have to stay with this man, I can leave and I can find a man who will not treat me like that. If have no sense of self determination I will believe I am trapped for any number of reasons– and if you prone to that outer focus the likelihood you crossing paths with someone who is looking for someone just like that to control is greater.
I am not saying that will always be the case, it is a risk factor, like the more overweight you are the more likely you will get diabetes. It doesn’t mean skinny people don’t get diabetes, or every overweight person will– it just means your chances are higher than most. So I not judging women like Chloe, I am concern. I am concern whenever anyone thinks something just happens to them without choice. This priest cannot grab anyone who doesn’t want to be grabbed- and denying that, saying you don’t have a choice in the matter, that you have to “fight” it– those type of words worry me greatly, but it doesn’t mean I am right, but it doesn’t mean I am wrong to worry either.
I know I am going to sound like a broken record here, and I know Fr. Daniel and others have disagreed with me on this in the past, but reality is, love always gives you a choice– even if attraction feels like you don’t have one, because we cannot explain why we are attracted to someone, eventually, in terms of romantic relationships, the “love” or what feels like love in those attractions, at some point has to mature and grow into the love God gives.
God gives us all free choice. You freely chose to love someone the first time you argue and you forgive them. You chose to love them when you can put their needs as equal to your own, not above, not less, but equal to. You chose to love when you can let go of them knowing you cannot give them what they truly deserve or want.
And you will know you are loved, when you are truly loved the way God loves you– yes, people are flawed, so our love will not be as perfected as God’s love, yet, there really shouldn’t be any doubt, fear or confusion in love– if there is then is immature love at best or something else entirely. Maybe it can mature in time, if it is sincere but immature love– but in any relationship you have the choice to determine how long you want to stay in it before you realize the love is not growing, not maturing, not reflecting God’s love to one another or to the world and never will.
My limit with Peter was eighteen years. And it is not like I stopped loving him, because real love will outlive us — but I had to accept on Peter’s side the love or whatever he feels for me hasn’t grown as my has for him. Deep down I have always known I was not loved back- not true love, not from Peter’s side of things.
Yet because of his vocation it was a lot easier for me to give up my sense of choice and stayed with a man who didn’t really love me, to the belief that is was his vocation that prevented him from expressing his true heart to me. But when it finally and completely clicked in my brain, Peter did and always had a choice to express his true heart to me– it wasn’t his vocation it was Peter’s choice. And based on that reality, that this was his choice, I understood I was not really loved– which made letting go of Peter in that respect, so much easier than when I believed he loved me as I loved him, but it was his collar that denied me access to his heart.
In the end we are all different, I can only hope something in my experience resonates with someone reading this so they will know they can make choices– they have self determination- whether you use that right to chose to stay or to go, is yours to make, but accept it is your decision, don’t allow other things, weather it be idealized romantic stories, or fate or forces beyond your control, rob you of what God gave you — FREE WILL
It’s always a pleasure when Promise CAN writes. She mentioned that I disagree with her. If I disagree, I mean no offence as she is a very mature lady. My point is that if I disagree I do it in the spirit of true dialogue in our search for truth. I re-read her post many times. It’s not that I disagree. It’s more about experience. Are you speaking about theoretical love or are you speaking about human beings who can be deceived and who need time to mature and who depend on many factors to reach the maximum level of love?
Well we say ‘How old are you?’ But if one is let’s say 30 years old, how old is he/she in her emotional level? Or her/his love level? People do not reach the maximum level just by age. They depend on a lot of factors. When studying morality, I did encounter a lot of factors which are truly hidden at first sight. Now speaking about the Catholic Religion I truly know that many kind of teaching is never done. Unfortunately we know quite well what’s not permitted (adultery etc…). But what about the growth of love? How many parishes organise a true course in deep love? How many perishes help a person to mature?
When I write that we need married priests, I do so not because they need sacrament providers (as some priests are thinking of married priests in far away Amazon in Brazil). But it’s the experience of a married man whose learning class is life itself. How many things I did learn in family! I simply cannot count how many times my wife taught me how to deal with rebel teens! How to understand silence in a couple! How to unite the family when it seems that everybody is going far away from the centre! Just to mention a few examples!
To conclude: it’s easy to idealise love. What’s more difficult is to find it in real life. That’s because love is mixed up with lots of other things such as attraction, sexual appetite etc…But every human being is in class (life), trying to go one step higher. We can’t simplify things as good or bad. There are various other grades in between. Yes some people find it extremely difficult to say no to an abuser. I’m not saying that I agree. I’m simply saying that the inner strength to say no, varies from person to person. Some people feel it from day one that their lover is not the right person. But for various hidden reasons, they simply don’t have the courage to run away and stop the relationship. Other take years to realise that their relationship is abusive! Others keep hoping that one day their man (priest) will realise the true love received and consequently he will be changed completely.
I don’t know if I’m clear in my argument. If not, one can write again.
I cannot speak for everyone but I am never offended if you or anyone else disagrees with me. I actually believe as you do, that debate, and the free exchange of thoughts and experiences help us to grow and to mature as human beings.
I was specifically thinking about the discussion a while back on soul mates. I still maintain, God does not create one specific person for another and that you have no choice in loving them, that it just happens. If God gave Lucifer the choice to serve Him or rebel against Him I find it hard to accept God then gives human beings no choice on who we marry or love.
Yet, based on the input and discussions we had I was able to accept that the reality for some it does feel like it was meant to be, and since I cannot say beyond any doubt that is wasn’t I cannot assume it wasn’t just because I personally don’t believe it works like that. However even those incidences if true, if love is involved, I know for love to be love as God meant it to be, it needs to involve a choice.
And it is that choice factor I am passion about encouraging myself and others to watch out for. No matter how you want to view love, idealistically, romantically, realistically, passionately, sexually, maternally, spiritually, comradely — the common thread should always be choice, somewhere, sometime in some way you agree with it, that is never forced upon you against your will.
As fallen beings we are allowed to make choices that end up hurting us or others, and God often uses those types of choices, to actually to make us more Christ like– most people learn more about God and His love in their sorrows, mistakes and disappointments, than they do in their successes.
It is often easier to trust God when you have nothing, than when you have everything, which is why many of the Catholic Saints chose poverty– it is part of the reasoning behind celibacy. By freely choosing to give up something that means so much to us, it would somehow make it easier to focus on the Divine. But the main trouble is forced celibacy because it robs a priest of true choice. And if they had real choice, 90 percent of all the things spoken on this blog would not exist. Celibacy isn’t the problem, it is removing choice that creates problems, removes love out of the equation.
So yes when I heard words that sound like a person has no choice, red flags go up for me. Yet I understand, sometimes the only way to learn something that God wants them to do know is to experience it themselves.
I recently had a discussion with Peter about the issue of priests not knowing what the real world is like and he laughed. He said priests are fully aware what the real world is like and that is what makes being a priest such a challenge. Priests are part of the world but yet cannot be part of it either– it is like a dog on a chain outside. He can see the squirrels, the people, the cars, but he is not free to run and be a part of it, the dog can only go as far as his chain will take him. This with them but not part of them aspect the RCC places on her priests, isolates them, but yet they are fully aware of the isolation– they know what they are missing.
Peter says priests handle this odd isolation that comes only with a RCC collar differently, but most use distraction. Distraction can be booze, porn, work, a woman in the parish– anything that numbs the reality that they are tied to a chain and cannot run free like the other dogs. Anything to feel they are part of the bigger world they can see but not really be a part of.
Others develop a martyr complex, the more they feel they suffer because of this isolation the closer they think it brings them to God.
And yes others to deal with it convince themselves they are better than everyone else— that somehow the chain makes them holier, above all the real world they see but cannot touch. But that too Peter says is just a defense mechanism.
For Peter he says he sees himself more like a guard dog– yes he is on a chain, but if he wasn’t there then someone or something might break in and rob his master. In his case, he sees his master not being the RCC not God. He sees his vocation as protecting God’s sheep. Yes, he is chained, yes he cannot run free with the other dogs, chase the squirrels, catch the Frisbee, feel the loving human hands petting him– but for him his purpose as the “guard dog” outweighs the joys of freedom– so he is basically rationalizing being chained with a combo of distraction and martyr — what he doesn’t get, what we know, there are plenty of guard dogs that can do their purpose of guarding the master’s home without having to be chained to do it.
* that should have read his master not being the RCC but God.
I don’t feel sorry for the priests. They made the decision to enter the priesthood and they have so many perks that come with that vocation. They can’t have sex, but neither can a single or widowed Christian. They don’t have to worry about getting a job, paying for a house, and they are taken care of all their lives and never have to worry. And they are almost worshipped by other people. No vocation in life is perfect. Their vocation is pretty good when all is said and done.
Well..well…well. Most of them have entered at a very tender age. They did really know what they were promising?
What is a “tender age”?
In the USA, the days of children (< age 18) being in seminary prep are long gone; a practice abolished since the second Vatican Council acknowledging the damage *child* admissions present.
What I find interesting is seminary from 18- 25/26 years (typically) when a young male is at the height of his raging hormones; the primordial instinct of "the urge to merge". What drives a young adult~ especially males~ to such a state?
We know prestige and respect (often unearned), freedom in their work day, good compensation when you factor in all the stole fees, gifts, housing and auto allowances count for part of it.
But, how truly healthy is sidelining one's sexuality? I say this for Women Religious, too. I am not speaking of rampant sex, but the evolution of one's psycho-sexual/social development? What happens to that energy when it is tamped down unnaturally as the celibate life does?
Do young men called to the celibate state have deep-seated issues and look to the priesthood as an honorable escape? I am leaning in to this being far more likely. And, experts tell us very few are called to the charism of chastity. In my opinion, the by-product of the celibate state goes far deeper than being deprived of the human right to love and marriage.
We see it here: Affairs, women disrespected, used and abused; abuse of social media, parishioner trust. Clergy living a double life in addictions, on-line sex encounters… Clerical hierarchy festering cover-ups where nobody wins and secrets don't remain secrets.
And people get hurt where one should be the safest other than one's home.
~Marshmallow
In my case I entered the friary when I was just 16 years old!
We have to remember that it isn’t just priests who are celibate!! Single Christians, who if are really doing the correct thing, stay celibate until marriage, or forever if they never marry. And widows and widowers have to be celibate until they remarry too. So what is the difference with Christian singles who never marry and stay celibate, and priests? The Christian single people do NOT have the great perks that a priest has. Nor the life time security and adoration from other people. They should get more of the sympathy than priests in my opinion.
Paula,
Thank you. Thank you for recognizing that priests and sister’s are not the only ones living celibate lives.
Lay people living this out does not effect anyone, no one cares.
The reason no one cares, is because it does not effect them.
One person’s celibacy does not effect another.
One person may find great reward in it. Another may not find any.
Maria has sent me an article which should create more discussion: https://blog.usejournal.com/if-catholic-priests-cant-live-what-they-preach-why-should-we-8bb395bb15c1
Another article regarding real numbers for priests in the Catholic Church today in the US, plus the number of parishes without a resident priest!! See it at: https://www.meridianstar.com/community/religion/terry-mattingly-married-catholic-priests-is-it-inevitable/article_103c0667-822b-5114-bad7-fda3b3c10353.html
I know I have not been on here for a long period of time. However, I am catching up!
I had to read this story three times. It is only because I was searching for what real physical harm was done here? A “relationship” is generally acknowledged by the two individuals in some way. I am amazed at the amount of dialogue this story has inspired. What has been described was a “spiritual” connection?
Please help? Am I interpreting this correctly. I mean no offense, just seeking clarity.
We are basing “abuse” off of how a man “looked” or “did no look” at a woman ???
Re Paula’s statement on unmarried Christians who are celibate– using the general definition of celibate to mean not having sex rather than the RCC definition which is just unmarried.
Yes, many unmarried and frankly married folks are not having sex, but lets discuss the unmarried ones.
Let’s be conservative and say out of all the unmarried Christians 50 percent are having sex outside of marriage, they are not trying to be celibate even if that is the teaching of the Christian faith. I wager out the remaining 50 percent, half of those are celibate involuntarily, meaning they would have sex if a partner they wanted to have sex with came available.
Out of the remaining 50 percent of those not having sex– now down to about a quarter of all unmarried Christians– lets say a third of those are not having sex due to some limitations, like illness, another third not having sex because they never like it, never wanted it, and are happy living without it. That leaves a possible third of a quarter of all unmarried Christians not having sex because they are living out the moral teaching of their faith.
Now out of this number, most will be young adults who will marry at some point. Their celibacy is temporary. They are free to date, openly and when they do decide to marry they will not lose their job, their pension, their standing in the community, their relationships with family and friends and co workers. And for those few young adults who abstain from sex and never married and stay virgins into their 30’s, 40’s or beyond– only those adults doing that can claim they are doing voluntarily what a Catholic priest vows to do- those are folks you can compare priests too, not everyone else.
Given this number is so low, I personally do not begrudge a priest a sex life, even if it has to remain secret, BUT it is this secrecy that other unmarried Christians having sex before marriage do not have to embrace. It is this secrecy that forces what could be honest connections that under normal circumstances could mature into the kind of love God meant us to inspire to.
If I had been free to date Peter openly. If he had not been bound by vows that make his celibacy permanent as oppose to temporary like the rest of us, unmarried lay people– when he could have been honest with himself and with me about his feelings, had experience dating others so he knew what relationships were, then we might had stood a shot and developing a long term committed relationship. But under these circumstances, circumstances as many described to being involved with a married man, it would be rare for any relationship to make it to the point of marriage.
Most unmarried Catholics have the hope of marriage, and those who no longer or never wanted to be marry, make a choice if they abstain from sex willingly because they believe it is God’s way and His way is better for us. But when the RCC robs a priest of this choice by forcing celibacy on them, they have no hope to change it, and even if they want to embrace celibacy, they are never certain if they are doing it for God willingly or because they had no other option available. And trust me if you believe God or anything else is stopping you from having sex, when you want to have sex– that frustration and bitterness will eat at your soul.
No comparing the celibacy a priest’s faces with regular celibacy all unmarried Christians face is comparing apples with oranges.
Great and thorough comment, PromiseCAN. I appreciate it.
But, I disagree and will repeat my unpopular position: No one forces a priest to become ordained; they are adults. No one forces an unhappy seminarian to remain in formation~ plenty of options to get expelled if he wants out without being obvious. No one forces a priest to stay in ministry with the RCC; priesthood is not indentured slavery. They are well-educated men with many worldly experiences from active priesting; an education financed by the faithful with tools applicable in the world. What a perk that is to go into the world!
Most of us at onetime make life-long commitments; commitments that we break and are just as painful breaks and often with stigma~ if not more so~ than a priest leaving the Church. Think divorce and the *innocents* who suffer the outcome: loss of parents together, loss of the homestead and the social economy of a child coming from a *broken* home. Then parents dating, remarriage and all those secondary elements that impact the *innocent*~ the children. Impact that often leaves life-long scars. A priest faces none of that.
If we continue to mollycoddle the priests, accepting violations to celibacy no matter how we might view it, the priest has *no* reason to advocate married priesthood; they have their cake and eat it, too.
And in today’s world, most companies have fraternization policies: No dating between employees when there is a power imbalance. Same thing for clergy; they have a fiduciary obligation to not *dip* parishioners.
MY2Cents: If a priest wants sex whilst actively priesting, he must either shape-up to his promise or ship-out. And I am by no means even remotely conservative Catholic.
~Marshmallow
I am confuse, if being a priest is the same thing as being a lawyer, if Holy Orders is the same thing as marriage, then why when a priest cannot live up to a moral standard no human being can, he is judged differently when he fails?
If being a priest, given Holy Orders, means he has to be the perfect example for the rest of us, then the vocation cannot be compared to any other job or vocation because no other job/vocation requires moral perfection in order to perform it.
I am not advocating let us use the old let those without sin cast the first stone to give priests a free pass to make unloving choices -BUT there also has to be a recognition the pressure they are under in a fish bowl to live a life that only Christ himself was capable of living out.
And that is the point of Christianity. If we could live sinless lives we wouldn’t need saving from sin. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Priests are fallen human beings, they will sin, they will make choices that are selfish, they will be like the rest of us.
Unless one was or is being purposely groomed or sexually assaulted, any sexual activity between priests and their partners is between them and God. If groomed or sexually assaulted that is criminal behavior and that needs to be address strictly and without excuse, but lets us not confuse criminal behavior with flawed human choices.
The main reason for sharing our stories is to show the RCC this standard they and then others have placed on her priests is one they cannot live up to. It is unfair to them to tell them they can. It is unfair to the laity to claim they can for it drives people out of the pews rather than inspires them. It causes hypocrisy and secrecy that allows evil to flourish and in end it reflects our fallen nature over being a light of God’s love to the world, which is far worse than a priest making love to the woman or man he loves.
That is the real issue, the RCC failure to reflect God’s love to her priests, her flock and to the world. A priest’s behavior is merely the topic, let us not get so wrap up in the topic we forget the issue.
The article about why should we practice what a priest preaches if they can’t is exactly what Peter meant by describing the priesthood as being like a dog on a chain.
We all know and this article demonstrates the minute a man becomes a priest he suddenly expected to do what none of us can do, live a sinless life. He is no longer like the rest of us, but he is exactly like the rest of us, the only difference everything they do and say is judged, watched or commented by others.
No, we don’t have to feel sorry for them because they did chose to be priests, but let us not pretend being priest is like any other job out there. When a doctor or lawyer has a bad day they can go out to bar or to the club to let off steam without anyone caring, but a priest always runs the risk of someone knowing their vocation. The gossip and the scandal that goes along with just wanting to have a beer or dance with a pretty woman for a night simply does not exist with any other profession.
And even if they go on holidays and they don’t wear their collar and try to blend in like regular folks, if they are honorable priests, then they still know they are priests even no one else does– it is like even if free from the chain, they still act as if they are because they aware God is always watching and He did holds more accountable for their actions, than He does the rest of us– there is a Scripture to that effect, I believe in Hebrews, near the end of the book, I don’t recall exactly, but it’s there.
No one seems to care how many Catholics go to communion with sins on their souls, confident that little prayer at the beginning of mass absolves them so they are free to take the body of Christ without qualms, yet the priest’s prayer that does the same thing before they consecrate the host, doesn’t seem to cover it for most folks– no the priest has to pure and holy, in order to give us all the illusion it is obtainable, when it is not– but that is the message of Christ, if we could be Jesus without Jesus we wouldn’t need Jesus– only the RCC teaches their priests are above all that leads to this with them but not part of them isolation I referred to in an earlier post.
And you know it doesn’t matter how fancy and plush the dog house, or how well fed the dog is, or how expensive the dog toys, a chained dog is still chained– he is not free, and those of us who are cannot pretend we know or think they have it easier than the rest of us. What they have is different than the rest of us, but it doesn’t make it better or worse, just different.
I do not feel sorry for priests, but I do feel pissed at the RCC, for what that articles stated is the climate that allows for all crap to exist by teaching things that sound Christian, but neglect the spirit of Christianity– it is what is called legalism.
Legalism creates hypocrisy, it creates double standards, it creates black and white thinking– and inflicting the weight of that chain on young impressionable men who are usually idealistic and loving when they join the priesthood will inevitable cause them to resent the chain, accept the chain, or try to forget it’s there in any way possible– by the weight of that chain, they can never, ever escape– even when they leave the priesthood, they will always be priests, and they will always be this expectation, maybe less, that a priest, even not an active one, should behave differently than us mere mortals.
And that falls right smacked on the RCC shoulders to blame– not the individual priests. Again, I am speaking of those who entered the vocation honestly and those who are sincerely trying to live up to what is expected of the vocation. It doesn’t include those spoken in the article who use the RCC as a shield for hide behind as they inflict all manner of deliberate pain on others.
I know for a fact, Peter detests all the pampering. He speaks of never knowing if people are being being nice to him because of his collar or if they sincerely like him. He has to be guarded in what he says- he is not free to speak his mind about things related to the RCC, or anything else. And when you spending someone else’s money and not your own, you have to justify every expense, including what brand of toilet paper you want for the rectory. Trust me, he had to explain his preference over one brand over another because there is always one member on financial committee will take issue over the price of this brand or the generic kind.
Again, not saying to feel sorry for them, just saying the grass is always lookers greener on the other side of the fence- no matter what side of the fence you are on there are perks and challenges.
I think it would be a lot worse to be a man with a bad job that doesn’t pay much, and have to work to support a wife and many kids.
In the end one life is not better or worse than another, they are just different. What determines the quality of that life, is how the person living it perceives it. We cannot walk in another’s shoes, so our opinions positive or negative about anyone’s life means little to the one who is actually living. But I am pretty certain if you ask that man who has the rotten job supporting his wife and kids, if he would trade them for the so called cushy life of a priest- his answer will be no.
Another article as food for thought: https://www.ncronline.org/news/accountability/break-silence-french-bishops-start-dialogue-children-priests?clickSource=email
I have heard or never gotten the impression a priest is expected to “live a sinless life”. A measured life, yes. But even that~ in Catholicism~ has been aborted by the hierarchal and clerical culture.
In the Protestant world, the clergy children are the lens by too often a congregation holds their pastor. Children, teens of clergy living the unrelenting criticism from living in the fishbowl~ often taking with them life-long scars *and* forever leaving organized religion. The pastor continuously carrying the balance beam of congregants on one side, his family life the other. In a setting were the *congregants* hold the authority to terminate their pastor.
A measured life like clergy of all faith communities is assumed; ordained ministry is the business of theology, scripture, dogma *and* morality steeped in integrity and transparency.
~Marshmallow
Correction: I have *never* heard nor ever gotten the impression…
Another interesting article to read: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/we-are-in-limbo-married-priests-want-to-return-to-the-altar-as-they-watch-vocations-dwindle-38260196.html
This comment is not directed at anyone in particular. Just something I have read over and over on a variety of responses to posts on here. People often say: how is a priest, or married priest, supposed to support a wife and kids?? Or why would a priest marry if he has to support a wife, etc. What boggles my mind, is that this shouldn’t even be a concern at all since nowadays, usually the wife works too, and often makes same if not more money, than the husband. She is also often away from home due to work/career. Same difference.
I wouldn’t want a husband supporting me, nor I supporting a husband, unless of course it’s in between finding work. Otherwise, we just sit down, talk about our expenses, divide them, and decide how we will pay for it. Some open a joint account for expenses, some decide the categories that will be divided: ex: car, food, lodging, etc. It’s easily done.
Just my two cents.
I agree Original A!
Mysticism as the name implies means something mysterious, while the word supernatural means outside natural explanation. The two are similar and are often confused.
I do know by Scripture there are two worlds coexisting, one we can see, the other we cannot see. Since God himself cannot be explained by our natural world, He is a supernatural being, so He will act supernaturally, but that doesn’t mean all supernatural or mystic experiences are from God.
When it comes to these things, one should always keep in my mind what is the purpose for the experience?
For example, the term “reading of hearts”, if used correctly refers to someone who can read the heart and conscience of another in order to lead them into a closer union with God. It is not about reading someone’s heart to discover they love you or to impart on them you love them.
The most famous example of someone who was given this gift to read hearts was St. John Viannery who would spend hours hearing confession– his gift to read their hearts, to understand their sin before they even confessed it lead to the conversion and transformation of many- it all about leading others to God, and was never meant to be a gift exchanged between two people for themselves.
If one truly believes they are having a mystical experience from God, then seek out the bigger reason for it, because if it is from God it will be about God’s priorities, not ours.
God’s priorities are convincing those who do not believe He exists, He does exist, Convincing those who believe God exists that He is the Only God. Showing those who believe He exists and is the Only God His true character. And transforming those who knows He exists, that He is the only true God and who He is– to be like his Son, in order help get Him get that message to other groups I mentioned. These are His priorities because the world as we know it is going to end and in order to part of the New Kingdom, you have to be part of Him– and you can’t be part of Him if you don’t know He is, He is only, He is who He is, and we are to be like him.
If any mystical experience cannot be connected to one of these priorities, then personally I would be suspicious and not see them as being from God. Do not confuse mystical with supernatural or spiritual– they are all different things.
My question for Chloe would be what is consequence of this reading of hearts? Is it about her and this priest exchanging feel good feelings and that is it? Is this exchange making the priest holier? Is it helping her to become holier? Are the two of them taking this understanding to others, to help them know God and His holiness? To be a true mystical experience from God this is what should be happening.
The waves of love one should be experiencing are waves of love coming from the Divine, not a RC priest. If the priest is so holy he is emitting God’s love so those who are around him feel God’s love for them, that is a mystical experience, not a priest telling her heart he loves her–if she is only one experiencing this reading of hearts– that is telepathy – supernatural yes, mystical no.
And probably there are not many on this blog that can claim a mystical experience involving their attraction with a priest, because true mystical experiences are about God, not romance.
Some folks are more sensitive to the supernatural world around us, and Chloe sounds like one of those people– so my advice, should she like to consider it, is, find out if your experience is truly mystical or is it supernatural.
If it is mystical, then God is trying to tell you something- but it will be about him, it might involve priests, but it will not be about you and the priests directly, like a man and woman attraction. If that is what getting, feelings of romantic love, for them and their love for you, and that is all to it, then use the proper terms and it might make it easier to find the answers you are looking for.
Don’t allow a priest to twist terms, to convince you are having a mystical experience when in reality, he is using the supernatural for his own gain, or worse the enemy is exploiting your sensitivity to mislead you that something is happening when it isn’t
Mystical experiences may be a mystery, but they are not mysterious in their purpose, which is by God for God in the God’s work of saving mankind from the end of this world to bring them into the next. Anything else is not mystical, spiritual or supernatural yes, but not mystical.
PromiseCAN~
Thank you for this deep, enlightening and very well-written post. It is “over-my- head”, but nonetheless worthy of recognition.
Thank you for sharing your staggering vault of knowledge and your time preparing this post.
Blessings~
~Marshmallow
Hi to all
Can I ask a question. How do you know if a priest has feelings for you?
I would say, does he do anything special to you? I mean, does he spend more time with you than others? Does he use any ‘romantic’ words?
Come on readers! Help her by writing about your experience…
I think the main thing is that you see them always looking at you. And then they try to talk to you more than the other parishioners. And they smile a lot when they see you. Of course, those signs show “interest,” not love, obviously. If you google, “Signs that a man likes you,” that will give you more clues. The priests can’t love you until you have a proper relationship and you get to really know each other. Then it can be real love. I don’t think it can be real love if you just look at each other, hardly talk, and never spend time alone together. That’s just infatuation and romantic fantasy. True love comes after really knowing each other and each others’ faults, and caring about the other person more than yourself.
If the priest is an honorable one and is sincerely trying to live out his celibate life faithfully, he won’t have much experience with the affairs of the heart. So you can expect mixed signals. He will at times be very friendly, seemly enjoying conversing with you, and the next time you meet he will act like you have leprosy and be very uncomfortable around you.
One day you will keep catching him staring at you when he thinks you are not looking, the next time he will avoid looking at you at all.
If you are a parishioner after one mass he will hold your hand longer than it is normal for a handshake, the next time, he will barely say hello.
Basically remember if you are confused to how he feels, it is generally because he is more confused than you on the subject. He will be torn by his desire to be closer to you, to get to know you better and his fear of what that all might mean for him, for his vocation and his future.
And the closer and more attracted he is to you, the more extreme these swings between desire and fear will be.
If he is not an honorable priest, if he is interested, he will be far more direct about it. You are probably not his first — there might be a bit of scoping you out, finding out how receptive you might be to engaging in a sexual relationship– how much trouble you might be– meaning if you will get too attached– and once he has an idea of what he might expect, he will make the first move towards a sexual encounter- there will be no confusion on that.
Of course these are generalities– all human beings are different, but based on my experience and others, these are some the signs to be on the watch for to tell if a priest likes you in that way honorable or not.
The bigger and most important question is what do you want? Why do you care if a priest likes you or not? It only matters if he likes you, if you like him.
And if you “like” this priest– then be honest about what you can really expect should he return your feelings. Do you want marriage and children? If so, then how much time are you willing to invest in this relationship in hopes he will leave the priesthood so he can provide those to you, or how long are you willing to wait to see if the RCC will change it’s policy on the matter.
If you are looking for a soul mate to share life’s journey with, but not marriage or kids, how many sacrifices of your needs are you willing to make to accommodate his vocation?
Considering all the obstacles, and the odds of having your heart broken, do you still want to know if he likes you? Isn’t it better not to know and move on now, before getting your heart invested– because no matter how great a guy he is, he comes with a ton of baggage– and the biggest one is that collar around his neck.
Don’t think that doesn’t really matter, if it is true love–fate, God’s will, whatever romantic notion you wish to follow or believe– because in the end, he loved something before you first– whether it was the RCC, that he was willing to make such lifelong promises to, or God, that he was willing to give himself to service to the RCC or some more earthly reason — whatever it was that lead him to the priesthood, it was not trivial or meaningless to him– so depending on what that was, that will determine how likely he would be willing to abandon the priesthood for anything, let alone for you.
How do you know if a priest has feelings for you? >>> Same way we know if any man has feelings for us. Let’s remember that any priest is a simple man with regular human emotions.
I think there are two categories of situations on here: those that become attracted to the priest of their parish (whether they go to the mass he celebrates, or they (the women) participate in Church activities), and those that become attracted to a man in society or in social events who happens to be a priest.
For me, I am from the latter group. How did I know he had feelings for me? Hmm: here’s a list…. the way he looked at me; the excuses he found to come and talk to me or sit with me; the types of conversations he had with me (not just the topic, but how relaxed he was with me, and the way we were giggling, or the hand on the arm thingy); the sparkle in his eyes; the constant texting or visits; the inviting me to the rectory; the sharing deep secrets that you know is not known to the common people; the inviting to his church to attend mass; the looking at me during mass; there is so much more, but like I said, a priest is a man, and if you have had experience with men, then they are no different. Last but not least: the crying from both parties as we held each other one last time when saying goodbye. I think the biggest hint when a woman or a man likes someone else in a special way: the proximity. Any time someone goes out of their way to try to be close to you, or touch your arm as they are talking, it’s a huge hint they ‘like’ you.
I hope the list is long enough for you to help with your question….
Original A~
I gathered a tear when your post got to the goodbye. Oh my gosh, your attraction sounds so wholesome, too.
Do you mind my asking why there was a goodbye?
~Marshmallow
Thanks to all for replying. Promise Can really nailed it for me. That s What I experienced the most with the priest I was in love with. The priest I spoke about In my last post that I am a Eucharist minister in, is unbelievable. Very obvious about his attraction.. Standing In front of me pretending to be talking to others. But I will never love another priest. I loved my first and my last priest. He was unique……
Marshmallow – his conscience wouldn’t allow him to continue seeing me anymore…