When one is watching TV on his/her own, one can watch any station for any reason. Once the person is joined by just one single person, the scenario changes completely. One cannot watch any station in the new situation. There are two people now. They have to discuss what are they going to watch. Most probably two people have different tastes and ideas about what to watch.
In the church we are still individuals. Most people think about themselves and God. Whenever one starts meeting others for faith talks, one starts seeing cracks. The others don’t understand me; they label me; I feel threatened. This is just some of the comments that we priests witness when trying to gather together a flock. I thought that it was only when it comes to face to face meetings. No, it’s online too. When we don’t see eye to eye we start fighting!
Some people might think that they have lost their faith as they see Christians fighting each other. Well, let’s be blunt: fighting between Christians is not a good publicity at all and under certain principles it shouldn’t exist at all. Yet, if one reads the bible regularly and in a prayerful mode, one discovers many instances where fighting becomes the order of the day; whether it’s physical, emotional or on any other level!
There is never a dull moment in the bible. It happened to Christ himself. He wanted to start His church. He could have done it all alone with no mistakes, perfect method and perfect publicity. Maybe it would have progressed with no hiccups! But that’s our human mind who does not want to face any difficulties, sicknesses, challenges and different opinions then the ones held in our grey matter.
Christ himself chose Peter. He was surely not the diplomatic or ideal person at all with no academical qualifications! Sincerely, who would have chosen Peter out of all people? From the practical point of view there were others who were more qualified for the job. Yet Christ chose Peter. We can never comprehend God’s will 100%.
Reflecting on such events one may come to some interesting points. Is the job of Peter so important after all? Who is in command of the church: Peter or God? Who can perform more than humans: Peter or God? If the church were to be based on human beings, it would have already collapsed! Yet it has a unique long history of at least 2000 years. Is this not a miracle in itself?
Some people might have lost faith after the sexual abuse scandal which turned out to be incredibly universal. Yet it’s not the first time that the church has faced such difficult situations. If one mentions the case when the Pope had six illegitimate sons….when we had two Popes at the same time…when the Pope was more similar to a king than a real shepherd and had attacked and conquered other nations…. when the Vatican was going to be attacked during World War II…
In the bible we have one of the earliest quarrels in the church when both Peter and Paul had totally different opinions about the process of joining the church itself!
We have just seen one aspect: the lack of cohesion and agreement in the ‘crowd’ mentality. How about advantages? Could one have all the ideas of the world in his mind? Could one have all the talents, the spiritual power, the will to help the church? Surely not. That’s why we need the others. Besides there Christ’s words that when two or three people are gathered in his name, He is there, present.
The idea of a team is that a good coach studies each and every member and puts him/her in the right place. It’s useless if we start pointing out the bad side of each person. Jesus is in command of His church. We have to pray more in order to see things from God’s point of view. He knew about his apostles’ weak side, yet He chose those twelve in order to kick start his greatest project on earth – the church. Shall we start dissecting his apostles to look out for defects? Or shall we accept them as God’s messengers?
When facing other people in the church, yes we’re going to meet with sins, fragility, incompetence, hard headed people etc…..yet they are all in God’s wonderful hands who can transform a cemetery into a living group of people! He is God of the impossible and not just of that which is possible!
From our experience, being responsible of a parish, we always tried to find people for particular jobs whilst having a blind eye for their defects. One who talks a lot might be used to transmit quick and urgent messages in the parish! One who was good in projects undertaking was used to conduct projects in the parish. One who was full of peaceful thoughts was brought in when having arguments etc…
If one wants to meet the new baby Jesus in the coming months, why not make a list of positive aspects about your ‘enemy’!!! If you want to dig deeper, why don’t you go for the second step: how can we use your positive side and his/her positive side to the benefit of the church?
This isn’t really on topic, but someone sent this to me recently and I thought it a fitting piece for this Advent Season
And God Said No!
I asked God to take away my pride, and God said “NO”.
He said it was not for Him to take away, but for me to give up.
I asked God to make my handicapped child whole, and God said “NO”.
He said her spirit is whole, her body is only temporary.
I asked God to grant me patience, and God said “NO”.
He said that patience is a by-product of tribulation,
it isn’t granted, it’s earned.
I asked God to give me happiness, and God said “NO”.
He said He gives blessings, happiness is up to me.
I asked God to spare me pain, and God said “NO”.
He said suffering draws you apart from worldly cares
and brings you closer to me.
I asked God to make my spirit grow, and He said “NO”.
He said I must grow on my own, but He will prune me to make me fruitful.
I asked God to help me love others as much as He loves me,
And God said “Ah, finally you have the idea”!
Author: Claudia Minden Weisz
Happy Advent to All
That is so beautiful!! I am going to print it out and save it! Thanks!
@Promise Can
That made me cry. Beautiful. Thank you.
I also am going to keep a copy. xx
@ Cat
Oh honey I couldn’t stop smiling when I saw you give me a mention in Fr Daniel’s last post and say that I had helped in some way. I’m delighted. I do still pop on here from time to time and see some familiar names. Promise Can speaks so much sense I have nothing to add really so don’t comment as much. I hope you are still doing well. I hope this link to a YouTube video works (search ‘Fleabag & the priest please don’t say you love me’ if it doesn’t) but we had a TV show here in the UK called Fleabag which featured a relationship between a priest and a woman. It didn’t end happily but didn’t end badly. It touched a lot of nerves for me. I’m not at the end yet but I hope if we do part we part as friends and I know that’s what we both would want if it had to end. Anyway the two actors some up a lot of the difficulties experienced on both sides…. there is a bit of language just to warn some people. https://youtu.be/kuHRcdzlrus
Lots of love to you Cat and Happy Christmas to all the ladies here and you Fr Daniel. xx
The link worked for me. Thanks for including it. I think it would be very difficult for me to watch a show like that, but from the highlights it seem like it was an honest portrayal of how such things can happen– it didn’t look like it was glamorizing or romanticizing it like the novel the Thorn Birds did, but show two people caught in an impossible situation. I liked the line where the priest character says he wouldn’t burst into flames if he had sex with her, but it would throw his world into turmoil if he did– or something to that affect. It made me laugh and cry because that sums up the reality of it.
I hope you do end up as friends with your priest, it is hard for love to die when it didn’t end because it ran it’s course, but because it never really had a chance to grow–and without growth, love has no where to go– and I found trying to hold love in this static state impossible– so for me no longer looking at Peter as the man I deeply loved, but seeing him only as my cherished friend gave me peace, but to be honest I did lose something in the process, something I miss very much– but not as much as I would miss Peter if he was not in my life at all.
The first line of the clip was something like when you fall in love it feels like hope– and I would add when you lose hope, it is hard to love. I lost hope in a romantic relationship, but my love for him found hope in the friendship I know will endure until our dying days.
In my heart I hold the image of Peter as a little boy and me as a little girl, standing there holding hands, staring into the distance– there where the future is a dream of possibilities and promises of discoveries yet to be made. Only in that future, in a place yet not known, we will those two children be able to turn and face one another and see the grown woman and man they became and see in each other’s adult eyes, all the love that each had for the other, but this world was not ready or allow them to share in it’s fullness.
And on that day, I hope every single Pope who ever supported celibacy and kept it going for selfish human ways, will be force to bear the burden of the pain they inflicted on those two children, and every two children like them who were forced into the same situation. Then turn to those all those children and say “Forgive me” and we can say, “We do” and we all can entered into the fullness of eternity tormented and tormentor alike, forget the evils of the past, and embrace all God has waiting for us.
The clip of the show Fleabag got me curious about it so I did some research on it and I was correct that it was a honest portrayal but not in the way I thought based on the link provided. It was a honest portrayal of how two wounded and troubled souls were drawn together for a brief moment only to realize neither one was the answer they were looking for. Based on what I watched and read of it beyond the link provided, it was not a “love” story between two people, but a story of a woman trying to find herself; still worthwhile, but disappointing because the way the character’s relationship with the priest played out it didn’t really do any of us who truly love a Catholic priest a favor.
By that I mean, when I read things that hits to religious porn sites went up 125 percent after this show aired– and all the buzz about the whole relationship centered not on any real love between them, but about the “hotness” of the priest and whole “kneel” command he gave her in the confessional booth before he kissed her– illustrates the allude of viewers was not for the heartbreak of a relationship that could never reach it’s fullest potential–or the madness of the requirement of celibacy that has been allowed to go for centuries. No the interest was the “will they or won’t they have sex” and the taboo of the sex– all of it making the sexual component even more illicit and arousing for them.
This type of thing is the reason the RCC doesn’t take real love between a priest and a woman seriously. It always gets boil down to the sex part, as if that is the biggest thing, the only issue at stake here. No one watching that show wonders why that priest is a bit of a jerk, or is a borderline alcoholic– why he can only show his feelings for her when he makes her weak in his eyes? None of this matters to the viewers, all they want to see is a hot priest have sex– because the forbidden aspect it makes it all more erotic for them.
I wonder if the show had an older lady and an older priest playing out the same story if it would be the must see show that this season of the Fleabag became — I doubt it. So this show wasn’t what I thought it was, nor does it represent me and Peter at all.
And the fact that opinions on the internet were mixed between those who saw this relationship as an epic love story and those who viewed it as a priest exploiting a vulnerable woman, only proves perception is based on your perspective. A romantic will see a love story; a victim will see abuse; a realist like myself, sees neither— and we live in a world where all perspectives are valid, all are correct and all are incorrect.
Just posting a link which should provide some spiritual food for our readers: https://www.traditionalcatholic.co/free-catholicbooks/
I see that too. And, “He” had a similar dream. I just watched the ending of the Titanic. I cried. God loves us.
My Dear MM,
Thanks for the link to the video. It brought back some some memories for me too. 😊
I have missed you very much. Your kind words are timely as i am feeling downhearted and needed some kindness. I have decided to leave this blog again. Just as before, I am being provoked and then my responses are not being posted. I don’t say hurtful things on here and it pisses me off when one person gets away with it constantly. I wish things would return to the way they were when I first came here when everyone was nice to everyone else and there were no internet trolls.
I have had enough and begging for this to be a safe place for everyone is like banging your head against a wall. It is just not fair when one provokes another and the victim is never allowed to respond.
Sorry to be such a downer but I just cant believe this is happening again and still. It sooooo F-ing frustrating when you are not allowed to defend yourself!
Anyway, thank you for brightening my day with your lovely words.
Merry Christmas and may God bless you.
Yes it happened again…two readers have become tangled together again. They simply interpret what’s written on this forum as ‘against them’. Sorry, I’m not going to waste my time controlling simply 2 persons who are at loggerheads and waiting for the next battle to start! Each blaming each other, but each has her own responsibility to face! It’s not ok simply to write that I’ve never done anything wrong. One has to listen as well how the others are receiving their writing. It could happen to anybody, myself included. But our maturity tells us that if I know that some expressions are being interpreted in a certain way, I refrain from using them again.
Secondly, I never take it as ‘against me’ if somebody does not agree with my ideas! He/she has every right to disagree with me. I take it in the wrong way when people write explicit hurtful words especially in private emails. In that case, I still don’t attack the person because I believe that dialogue is the greatest asset of humanity. When one starts attacking people, then it means that she/he doesn’t have any valid argument and like a small child wants to stomp her/his feet to claim victory!
Cat and Marshmallow, this is not your private forum. If you want to fight, please go elsewhere. If you don’t comply, I would have to apply some tools to exclude you from participating in this forum. This is my last resort, something which I thought I would never use but experience has taught me otherwise.
This is part of the work of a priest who sometimes has to be tough with people who would like to play the power game. Sorry for the rest of the readers who are so mature when discussing issues. Those people should not take any notice at all as they have been behaving very well.
May God Bless you all!
I wish I had never clicked on that link because it made me cry and I am at my desk and crying…I guess I block out the pain I feel deep down.
@ horsing always
Oh I’m so sorry it upset you. That wasn’t the intention. It was just something I thought some of us could relate to in a way that made it feel not so ‘unacceptable’ – sort of if it can be written into a TV drama and handled very sensitively (if with some black humour) then it might make us feel we weren’t so off chart where it has happened to one of us. That everyone watching on TV likely supported the love between them and was gutted it couldn’t work out for them. That this drama recognised there was real love between these characters who were simply caught out by their circumstances and why each reacted to the other in the way they did. I know it now sounds weird but I thought anyone recognising themselves here would draw comfort as I did recognising myself and feeling that an audience would only feel compassion for them. So I really apologise to you and anyone where it brings up distressing emotions. Really I’m sorry.
@ *horsiegal – sorry for autocorrect!!
Awwww…of course I know that. I’m in the states so I never heard of it! It was hilarious those two! Maybes it was the song or my job that made me cry…We just love each other so much and it just goes on and on with no end in sight…the priest said he would be fucked if anyone found out is how my priest feels too. It hurts that we will never marry. But I think I would like to buy the series set sometimes. 🙂
It saddens me anyone decides to leave or Fr. Daniel feels it necessary to block them. I truly believe most come here for the same reason I did, to have a place to share, discuss and admit their feelings for a Catholic priest freely and give voice to what sometimes has stayed bottled up for a long time.
The ones out there who suffered needlessly believing they are evil for having “thoughts” about a priest. The ones who need compassionate honesty. The many who are confused by the mixed signals a priest is sending them and need their reality validated. The ones who had their heart’s broken and the ones who are so fed up with the Pope they can vent their frustration.
None of these voices are the “bad guy” — the common foe is not each other, but a centuries old deceit the devil implanted in God’s church and God has allowed this weed to grow for whatever reason He has. But we still can trust God is good and when His timing is right, “this deceitful weed” will be removed. The lie that celibacy is a gift from God and necessary for a man to be a priest.
Although we all have feelings for a priest in common and that unites us into a ‘club’ few of us planned on joining, we are all still basically strangers. We can only share a tiny part of our life here in this format. We all have childhood wounds God is still healing. We all have stress in our daily lives. We all have cultural and society influences unique to the area of the world we may be living in. We all have emotional triggers, certain words, certain personalities that can take us back to a time and place that has nothing to do with the person who triggered it, but we react like they do.
I know I have done it a couple of times on this blog and might do so again, because we are all human but when like Fr. Daniel stated, when it becomes a ongoing conflict then it does get tiresome for the rest of us to read. It is his blog and his right to moderate the comments as he sees fit. He has clearly stated in the past what his line in the sand is for comments, and those who violate that should not be surprised or hurt when their comment is not allowed.
However, Fr. Daniel I do ask you apply your rules evenly- meaning not too long ago you deleted and blocked Wondering/Chloe when you discovered she had used two different names. You claimed this type of thing discredits the integrity of your blog. Yet in the last thread, Cat freely admitted she once disguised herself as a Catholic priest by using the journals of her deceased priest to do it, how is that different than what Wondering/Chloe did?
I know I did not appreciate discovering that deception. Many of us comment to “that priest” believing him to be alive and asking for real help– and I was shocked you didn’t put your foot down to Cat when she admitted that. If using two different names is a line in the sand for you, then in fairness to Wondering/Chloe who got blocked, Cat needs to be blocked too–. We all knew when we read Chloe’s story it was Wondering, because she had the same story and used the same words, but when I read that priest’s story I didn’t know it was Cat using her priest’s journals- and would have never known if Cat hadn’t told on herself. Did you know it was Cat when you used his story? If not, then she lied to you too.
It might not matter if Cat is leaving as she said she was– and I really don’t want her to get blocked, that is not the point in bringing this up. However, if you have rules, and if other’s got blocked for doing what Cat admitted doing, then she should be blocked too. And I know Cat has many friends on this blog, and I am sorry, but I don’t see why she should get away with passing herself off as two different people, no matter her reasoning for doing so,when the same thing got other’s removed. Fair is fair.
Hopefully this will be last time Fr. Daniel has to address this, double identity issue– like I said saddens me when any voice has to be silenced on this blog either by their choice, or by Fr. Daniel’s discretion–
Yes Cat was blocked several times. Besides there is a lot of information which I kept hidden from readers. Sorry, I don’t feel obliged to share all the information.
Fair enough it is your blog. Since you do not seem annoy or upset at Cat presenting her deceased priest’s journal entries as if they were coming from a priest who was alive, you either knew about it at the time and were okay with the “double identity” in that case or addressed it later privately. As I said your blog, your rules. Confidentiality is important, so obviously there are facts that makes Cat’s violation different that Wondering, and I don’t need to know them.
*Multiple Pen Names*
Just recently I have had the urge to share my entire story as Daniel’s feature because it is not just about the wounds, but it has some very unique chapters. In fact, dare I say, it would be one of the most interesting stories among those I have read.
Thus, in November I asked Daniel if I could post my story under a different name; he would know, but no one else. And he said no. And, I graciously accepted it because we don’t need the “Three Faces of Eve”. So recently, when he made an exception, I was disgusted, but not enough to call it out on the blog. For obvious reasons.
From my story, and I risk saying this, but I will share the most poignant reckoning of my story: Relationships with a priest (in the context of a man-woman) are extremely dangerous. The Church hates scandal, and if you think a bishop will stand behind a woman, you are only kidding yourself. Whether or not their was sex, the bishop will go lengths to protect the *purity* of his boys. (Furthered by the unraveling of the child raping that has been hidden and children denied justice for decades. Laymen guilt of the same crimes go to prison.)
If for no other reason, the bishops are hard-pressed for priests, and as long as the priest is not stealing the Church money or sodomizing boys, our priests have a wide berth to run their lives as they wish.
So if you and your priest come to the attention of the bishop, it is you (the woman) who will be side-lined. And most of our clergy~ especially the bishops~ put the Church and brother priest first. If you do not believe me, look at how our married priests are also treated~ excoriated from the history of their diocese. No matter how well they served~ the woman gets damned. And that will happen to you. Trust me on it.
All this supported by generations of Catholics who were raised to believe whole-heartedly in “alter Christus” AKA: no speaking truth to power and will stand behind the priest, not the woman. The woman will always be the vixen in the misogynistic global world of Catholicism. Because by the gift of God we are designed to be with a man and a man is designed to be with a woman (in Catholic tradition). That makes us competition, sisters, and the Church will go lengths to destroy anyone who dare competes.
So my story will not be told here but maybe one day a “New York Times” best seller? Ha! (Maybe if Promise wrote it!)
Blessings To All~
~Marshmallow
Just to clarify — I am not writing a book of Marshmallow’s story– but if she wants to share her story in book form, I encourage her to write it herself— most readers just want emotional honesty and an authentic voice–a good editor will fix any spelling, grammar or writing mistakes– and that would be my advice to any would be writer– also remember if anyone asks for money to edit your book, or to publish it— those are vanity publishers– a real publisher pays you, not the other way around. If you not interested in money, just want your story out there- then it is better to self publish, at least you investing your money in yourself, and not handing it over to those who like to take advantage of those with a dream of having their book published.
Promise~
I was being facetious about writing my book 🙂 My note was not intended that you writing my book was as an authentic opportunity~ it was strictly a compliment to your writing 🙂
~Marsh Mallow
Promise~
Christmas Mass: I asked if you were attending Mass at the church of *Peter Your Priest * not St Peter in Rome:-)
~Marshmallow
I don’t think my relationship with my priest is as “dangerous” as you say. And honestly, I don’t give a fuck what the Bishop would say or what the Pope would say or anyone in the parish for that matter. I don’t need the Church to stand behind me to be validated by God.
Gosh, I think the reason why some of us don’t comment on this blog anymore, is the fact that no priests are writing in. No priests are sticking up for the women that are filled with suffering, and some of the women here are so judgmental, that it prevents the most vulnerable people from voicing their hurt.
Hi Christina~
When I came to this blog a few years ago, I was bouncing off the most horrible inter-personal relationship I have ever encountered~ with a priest; a man by virtue of his office is to be a safe haven and one to whom we can extend inestimable trust. Not so.
It was the worst time ever in my life, a priest who brutalized me, every ounce of my person, and while there was a handful of women who extended loving compassion here there was another group~ the most vocal and ever-present~ who picked and pecked at me like roadkill. They would not hear of anyone being harmed by a priest or sharing the games these priests can and do play nor accepting anyone expressing the risk of these relationships. Priests I referred to as “wanting their cake and eating it, too.”
So, I think what happens, readers mistake reality as judgement when, in fact, those of us who do not promote relationships are only looking out for the woman. Also, there could be age differences and our perceptions from our age as well as our ability to tolerate the upheavals. I know I am 66 and too old to play hide and seek” with any guy, and I never want anyone to experience what I did since most of these stories have the same makings. We need to be honest and examine the priests who don’t support their troubled women and not blame those sending the warning signals.
I can only say two priests for certain ever wrote here; one had left to marry and the other was transitioning out of priesthood to marry.
I hope this helps. I hope you are safe and respected. And, I hope you are not expecting more than your priesting is assuring you.
Warm regards for Christmas and the New Year.
God Bless You~
~Marshmallow
Horsiegal~
I always appreciate your comments, but I must say, the *F* word was shocking.
Not because I have never used it~ my generation coined the *F* word as a noun, a pronounce, a verb or an adverb~ it was part and parcel to everyday conversation.
But because some whom I value once told me how pitiful I sounded when using it: my message they said was entirely lost in the cussing. And, I think of you as too savvy for expletives.
Blessings To You~
~Marshmallow
But, the Bish is not above black-balling your livelihood~ these boys have long tentacles.
@ *horsiegal
Completely agree. I don’t care what the Bishop thinks of me or the parishioners. I’m no longer in his parish and I don’t attend any Mass he celebrates. I am discreet and respectful of his role but not in awe. And I wouldn’t let a parishioner who thinks they ‘own him’ judge me. Nobody owns him. Not even the Bishop. He’s free to make his own choices. I’m clear in my own heart about what I have done and why I have done it. Society might not approve because it’s out of ‘the norm’ but that’s my point with the Fleabag video – they all happily sit at home watching the priest and woman have an affair and wanting it to happen for these characters being portrayed and yet then sit in their pews ready to judge their own priest because of some archaic celibacy rule. Like *horsiegal I don’t need validation or acceptance from such people. They are stuck in fear when there is no need to be – I’m not taking anything away and I don’t compete for his attention. Better surely that he is a happy priest they can engage with than a lonely, tortured priest who keeps himself at a distance.
Some of the saddest words from a priest to a woman: “If anyone found out.”
~Marshmallow
Although it’s just one case, it will serve as eye opener to all: the law could be used to simply remove laicized priests and inactive priests!!!
https://www.ncronline.org/news/parish/parishioners-object-firings-laicized-priest-and-inactive-priest?clickSource=email
What are they afraid of? Why are we a threat to the rest of the parish? I remember myself giving some type of help in my parish. I was secretly discarded and never asked again to give a helping hand. Obviously I just moved on to administer to other people. The world is so large and there are other people who would accept a married priest.
It’s another reason why some people asked me in the past: why don’t you work in a parish? It’s not me after all. It’s them. They don’t want to see me again after making my decision to stick to my woman. To be truthful, it’s not just about getting married. There are so many areas in the church which are shady!
Yes, Daniel~
I did not want to stray too far off the subject, but that was my message here: “these boys (hierarchy) have far-reaching tentacles.” The Church failing to defend a woman and its married priests is one piece of the pie, but the enormous influence and the community/political power brokers and law enforcement at their disposal is quite another story. The Church will go to extreme lengths when she is *threatened.* And women and married clergy are threats.
The bishops are afraid our married clergy ignite the flame of *more to life than a Roman collar” to its other clergy *and* create a movement among those in the pews when parish members see a former priest happy and well-adjusted, with gifts to offer in a voice of peace and transparency. A married priest in one of our local churches was not allowed to read but a well-known adulterer was ordained as deacon serving at Mass and preaching!
My story uncovered a plethora of dishonesty beyond a priest and woman; I never saw such lack of integrity and web-like dishonesty I happed upon: staggering deceit, cheating, theft, misappropriation of church property to benefit *insiders,* fraudulent financial statements repeatedly published to the congregation, cash payouts to *certain* women of the parish~ large sums of money; endangerment of children~ yes, the kids are still not safe in my former church. All of this dropped into my lay during the course of my priest journey.
The rejection of our married clergy; Francis is at the root of this~ failing to exhort the tens of thousands of priests who left to live with integrity. His deafening silence shouting a flagrant disapproval of a married priesthood.
Thank you for sharing, Daniel. I am sorry you and your married brothers are subordinated~
~Marshmallow
What you say is true, but who cares. It is God that matters. Write your book. You are an excellent writer, distinct with inspiring vocabulary.
I was so glad to see your name. I thought you got blocked permanently or perhaps you just had nothing you wished to say for a long time, either way I am glad to know you are still out there.
No nobody will get permanently blocked but each response that is insulting, judging etc…will not be tolerated!
In the spirit of the idea of a team I would like to remind everyone just because we do not see our situation in someone’s else’s that doesn’t mean their views are not valid.
While some might not listen to what a Bishop or others think, there are others who were raised to believe their relationship with God express in their Catholic faith is very important and would suffer if they got drummed out their parish community if their relationship with the priest went south or got exposed
Since this blog is focused on a married priesthood, one of the reasons the stories are shared was to reveal how many hidden, authentic, romantic relationships exist out there to prove why the celibacy requirement isn’t working, but also to show the real pain it causes both priest and his love.
However, as I said in another thread there is a darker side to some women/priest relationships. And I read enough stories not just on this blog but others to know these relationships if that is the word for it, can be devastating with lifelong post traumatic stress for victims.
In every case, the woman involved in the beginning would have said their priest was different, he wasn’t like those priests who sexually harass, rape or uses people— until it plays out. Meaning there is no way to tell, until it happens.
So I would recommend another blog for those who might wonder or sense they might be in one of those situations– the website is called– ASAP (Adults Sexually Abused by Priests) ( a discussion on anything that has to do with anything related to abuse by clergy)
Her ( the writer of the blog) goal is to bring this dark side into the light and get the RCC to take it seriously. Maybe some of the red flags she shared that she wished she paid attention to, that would have warned her she was being groomed, not wooed might be useful for some.
And the nightmare the priest inflicted on her life simply because she refused to give him a blow job, shows how quickly an abuser will turn on you when he doesn’t get his way, no matter how special he made the woman feel or loved prior to that moment. And if he does get his way, how he cruelly he dumps the woman when he is finished with her– so if you had failed romances prior to your priest, but when your “romance” ended with him,you felt icky or something not right about it– it might not have been a romance at all, but abuse. Because so many of these situations get disguised as failed romances– it is very difficult to prove. So check out this website and see if her story and thoughts hit a chord with you.
https://adultsabusedbypriests.com/
And for those of us whose priest is or was not like this, let us remember there but for the Grace of God go I, because it is out there—
If you have been in a fire, you will probably yell fire every time you see smoke and react differently than those who never experienced being surrounded by flames. Maybe there is no fire in your house (situation) but try to be patient with the need of those were in a fire to warn others of the danger of the flames, because some might not be certain– and if you are not certain and you smell smoke– you should at least check it out before assuming your house is fireproof.
Another article which we might discuss is: https://outreachmagazine.com/features/leadership/49748-why-an-affair-involving-a-pastor-is-not-simply-an-affair.html
Thank for posting this. I think the writer states simply the issue and shows it isn’t confine to just Catholic priests but all clergy of any faith– but I think because of the Catholic priests promise/vow of celibacy there is an extra layer to the issue that makes it even more tricky.
I know in the beginning when I was in the infatuated state of love, if Peter had asked me to come to his office after hours to “discuss something” and the thing he wanted to discuss was me giving him a blow job, once I got over my initial shock and surprise that a priest would be so bold to ask–I would have done it.
I would have felt sorry for the poor priest who can’t have sex, I would have been flattered that he trusted me enough to ask and I would have eased any doubts by saying it was an act of love to give him what he so desperately needed– it would be like someone who had an itch on their back asking you scratch it — and that is how quickly it can be done— but if I ran out of there in horror and reported it– it would have become a he said, she said thing, and until recently, the he was believed more often than the she and if you were a Catholic woman suggesting a priest asked you this, you would have been treated in a vile manner by many, even strangers, which is easy to say you wouldn’t care until it happens to you.
I was fortunate Peter wasn’t like that, but I know how easy it would have been for him if he had been — But if it had happened like that, to this day I would have never considered it as abusive, it would seem too strong a word, because lot of ladies like me grew up being taught she was the keeper of the gate– guys would try to get you to “go all the way” ( is that even the phrase for it now) and how far ( how many bases — only guys equate sexual seduction with a sport) he was able to get you to agree to was your fault.
As for the notion all affairs with clergy are abusive– that is such a blurry line, that for some like Marshmallow that answer is simply yes; it sounds like a judgement but I think for her it is preventative measure; certain if he loves you he will leave that position before pursuing you; to avoid that blurry line.
However, I know from stories on here, that line is too blurry it is impossible to say, only the lady knows in her heart and for those who know something doesn’t seem right, as I said before it doesn’t hurt to listen to your gut as much as your heart— back in the beginning if I had to face the situation I described–my gut would have told me a priest asking for a sexual favor was off, but my heart would have told me Peter needed me, so I would have done what my heart told me– which as I said under different circumstances that could have cost me quite a lot– so again as I said, there but for the Grace of God go I.
PS I forgot to mention if you do go to the link I mentioned they are more posts than just the one you will see– you either have to press the all post tag, or just keep hitting previous post to get the previous thread and work backwards.
Also in her case, the priest was also her boss– but you don’t have to work for a priest to become a target, you can be a volunteer or just a parishioner– again, not saying all priests are doing this— or your priest is doing it, who ever you are reading this– just giving some the option to explore the possibility if the priest is being particularly wonderful one minute and really awful to you the next– uses withdrawal of affection as punishment, etc. gives vague threats or makes you question your sense of reality-
I think the ladies out there who are in this situation or were, know in their gut, what I am talking about– it isn’t/ wasn’t quite right– it is those ladies I am addressing– because after a certain point the reasoning that he is a priest, not experienced or conflicted by his sexual self to justify his hurtful behavior, and his unwillingness to listen to your feelings when you try to address it– just doesn’t fly anymore.
Like I said if you see smoke– it is worth checking it out–
Thank You, Promise for the link.
I went to the site you provided, and it is amazing how those *grooming* techniques keep appearing and the fallout to the woman. And the nasty politics of the Church; the priests’ bishop, colleagues and the woman/victim’s friends all rallied around him~ a priest who wanted an “in-house” affair~ a *blowie.* If the priest cited had not been a Canon lawyer, I would have sworn it was the former priest I knew.
But, I think it is important for us as women, and keep to our frontal lobe, any affair/relationship/ fling in a workplace~ no matter sacred or civil location~ is high risk for the woman. The #metoo movement attests.
~Marshmallow
Actually most parishioners, bishops and even the Pope don’t care if priests have secret girlfriends, as long as it is not public knowledge or they lose a priest over it. But if either of those two things happen– that is the situation Marshmallow is warning ladies about– that is when the whole weight that is the dark hypocrisy embedded in the RCC will come upon them.
But as it has been pointed out, if the priest stays after the exposure, he is protected. If he leaves, as Fr. Daniel has stated, he loses a lot more than just his vocation, but friends, often family members and is denied ministering in any capacity in the RCC– because Canon Law says it would confuse parishioners to have a “former” priest work or teach in a parish.
So even if the woman involved doesn’t care what anybody else might think or what they would say if they were found out– I guarantee your priest cares
However, we are not being kept from our priests by people’s opinion, their judgement is meaningless, but what is keeping many priests from giving his whole heart to his love– is the absolute control and brainwashing the RCC has over him.
One lady says her priest makes his own choices that the bishop doesn’t own him– I beg to differ– he completely does own his ass– the RCC doesn’t use that wording– they use words like surrender rather than submission; service rather than control, sacrifice rather than commands– the RCC priesthood has a lot in common with a cult– a priest has the illusion he has free will, when in reality the cult leader is controlling every aspect of his life– including his sexuality.
Most Bishops don’t want the hassle, so they give their priests a long leash–but if one of his priests, begins to affect the brand ( the Catholic faith) then you will see how little free will these guys have. I mean when grown men in seminaries will crawl into bed of a higher ranking official and let him use him as a giant teddy bear– that there says a lot about the kind of fear and the type of obedience these men are excepted to give– and only those who are not Roman Catholic wonder why they just didn’t tell the old geezer to jump in the lake–we Catholics all know why they didn’t.
In fact some priests have affairs, not because they want a lifelong partner or love, they just like the fact they think they are getting away with something when they have little to no control over any aspect of their life. I recommend reading some autobiographies of former priests and nuns, to grasp how dysfunctional the RCC can be– I am surprised God is able to work within it all.
I don’t tell Peter I am on this blog or sharing the things I share, because I already know he would freak out about, so afraid of someone putting two and two together– and at times I do post something that have sick feeling in the pit in my stomach wondering, I shouldn’t shared that
If your priest is aware you are on this site, sharing details about your relationship and is cool with it, then you are blessed, but if you are like me and you haven’t told your priest about, stop to consider why– is it because like me you know, he would not be okay with it– not because we are doing anything wrong– but because he is just so paranoid about being found out.
A priest in love, having sex, or both is never about morality but about sustaining the illusion that RCC wants the world to see. This is the issue, not Mrs Smith who bakes for the CWL lunches calling me a whore if she finds out I am in love with her precious pastor– but what the RCC and some Catholics will do to defend the purity of their ideals. One of those ideals is priests are holy, special, different, yes men, but men with special Grace– and when this “truth” is on the verge of being reveal to be the lie it is– that is when it becomes dangerous, for priest and his love alike.
And if you don’t believe me just ask any one who has got up against the power machine that is the RCC– their reach and influence is deep and if you fighting against it, even if your cause is just– you will see how little love there is in the institution that is trying to protect itself– cult leaders know the cult only works if they can control everything– if they lose control over one thing, they can lose it all. The RCC is invested in keeping control over their priests, if they lose control over them, they can lose it all, the power, the money, the influence– this is the problem, not gossiping old ladies in the pews.
Just a note: that’s why we suggest to change the name of the author ie the one who is writing about his experience with a love relationship with a priest, so that the person would remain anonymous. That’s why one should never be afraid to publish her/his story.
We never change anything about the story.
You know that, and I know that, but I still won’t tell Peter I am on this blog because it will upset him for no reason. I think a lot of people rationally know there is no way for anyone to figure who they are or who he is, but boy us ladies in love with a priest know far too well his deep fear of being found out, we become infected by his paranoia
I would love for Peter to read my entries, just because in 18 plus years I have gotten so skilled at the game of saying things to him without really saying them and vice versa– that it would be refreshing it he could see my heart and know my thoughts as honestly as I write them here. He wouldn’t be shocked by anything, just surprised by how openly I said it.
Perhaps I will tell him one day, if I see some movement on his end that he has grown weary of our “understanding” and begins to express his heart as directly as I speak of my here– but until that day, being on this blog is my secret. So thank you for this safe space- and I hope as a Catholic there will come a day where all this paranoia and fear of discovery is behind us, and we can live out our love openly and as honestly as any couple out there, because we all know love and fear do not mix well together–
Dear Fr. Daniel, I would love to share my story and I trust that you wouldn’t share my name. I however are extremely hesitant because I said the “F” word and offended some people. I feel bad about that and I don’t need to be judged any further. I was in the army for 6 years and it’s soldier talk…And sometimes, the explicative comes out. I actually confess that in confession and try to do better. Another reason I wouldn’t share our story is because there are people on this site who would judge me and that would break my heart. I don’t need advice because we are very happy together and he would never hurt me. In addition, I don’t understand why Cat just wouldn’t have shared excerpts from her priest’s journal instead of portraying him as a living person. The “Wondering”/Chole” thing completely blew me away by the dishonesty. I’m afraid of Marsh Mallow as well. She says that she is in a happy relationship now with a non-priest but the effects of the priest who was horrible to her are still there. Her experience just overflows into everything she writes and I just can’t take it. These women seem to be doing nothing positive in moving towards a married priesthood. It just seems to go round and round, back and forth between a select few. Anyways, have a happy new year! Thanks for understanding.
Sincerely,
Horsiegal
Horsiegal,
Let’s move on and forget all about the F word.
I don’t force anybody to publish his story. It’s up to you.
In my opinion you shouldn’t be afraid of criticism. In life, we all receive our fair share of criticism whatever job we have to do. I prefer to do my job albeit with a lot of criticism, then doing nothing because I might receive some criticism.
May God Bless you!
Dear Horsiegal,
I am so happy to hear that both of you are happy and he is not going to hurt you. Please feel free to share your story, I would love to read it!
Even if I am in love with mine and he doesn’t know (well, I hope he didn’t notice), even if is infatuation or not, or if I don’t talk to him very much and he runs away everytime I see him, to know your story and other ones at least give us the possibility to dream about our own ones.
I am agreed with you on most of your comment about the negative attitude of some women that are just talking about their bad experience.
Have a wonderful Christmas and all the best for 2020
If we do not believe the Church does not *own* a priest, look no farther:
Upon transfer/reassignment to a new parish, the bishop comes in all his splendor, and sits in the chair as grand presider, has your priest stand before him with the congregation in the pews like a naughty school boy, and requires his public promise to be *obedient* to the bishop in all measures *and* to the bishop’s successors.
The promise of *obedience* is one half, but the bishop allows no margin for error by the priest promising *obedience* to his successors. Obedience like a child from one grown man to another, but then to someone the priest nor the bishop do not know?
Not only does the Church take possession of our priests, but it infantilizes them as well. Need we wonder why many never mature beyond age eighteen? Teens trapped inside a man’s body.
I might add: Ordination publicly initiates this ownership with the young ordinate kneeling between the legs of the archbishop, promising his life to celibacy and the Church~ then prostrating them on the floor instead of raising them up to God. Winding up by a long line of old hierarchics laying their hands on the head of the priest candidate and hugging them. Little wonder for confusion.
Infantilizing and homo-erotic.
~Marshmallow
I don’t disagree. It’s a ceremony that makes me cringe. To me it is derogatory to have them prostrate themselves. Dominance is a recurring theme in Catholic practice. Telling us to confess, fast, abstain from anything pleasurable… and the more colourful and lacey your robes, the bigger your rings and more pointy your hats the more you get to dominate.
MM~
Dominance! Perfect! Dominance beats clericalism and hierarchy. Francis likes to toss around clericalism~ he needs to re-phrase it!
Exactly what the Church does to us all… and why the world has millions of *fallen away* Catholics and thousands of married priests.
~Marsh Mallow
Hi Marshmallow, you are so spot on!
Promise~
“…ask anyone who has got (sic) up against the power machine”… well said. My *story* nails it.
~Marshmallow
It was me that said the priest in my case isn’t owned by his Bishop. I agree the Bishop could make life uncomfortable and difficult if the priest was to leave but that isn’t ownership to me, that’s just vengeful nastiness and should be seen as such. Any other employer that behaved in such a way when an employee asked to leave would be accused of harassment. I agree someone shouting “whore!” at me over the sponge cakes isn’t going to even break my rhythm. I too have read many accounts from priests that have left to marry and have been on the receiving end of disgraceful treatment with any attempt to get on seemingly thwarted. And I agree it is the institution trying to save itself; using the most uncharitable, bullying tactics and using fear and punitive measures to try and control not only its clergy but also its parishioners. Like Marsh Mallow I have heard ‘inside’ stories that go all the way to the top, disgust me and should be exposed. But we shouldn’t keep feeding into this fear psychology. We give it life by doing so. I’m even getting fed up of being anonymous on this forum and the day will eventually come when I change that.
You are correct, no priest is a slave; they can leave if they choose, endure the fall out, and live a productive and happy live without a collar.
I was thinking more in terms of not having the freedom to do as they chose when they are a priest. For example Canon law allows for a priest to have four weeks a year off– but if they want to take more than a week at a time, he has to get the Bishop’s okay. I know Peter went many years without a real holiday because each time he went for approval, his Bishop said it wasn’t a good time, and could Peter delay it for another time– so Peter ended up taking a day or two here or there, just to bypass the Bishop, but in end, he had to ask for health leave that was months long, because of burn out. But even then the health leave was only granted because Peter threaten to leave if he didn’t get the time off to heal.
If a priest has a dog, and enough parishioners complained about it, and the Bishop asked the priest to get rid of the dog, he would get rid of the dog, even if he doesn’t want to.
If someone complains a priest is wearing too flashy street clothes, and the Bishop asks him to “tone it down”, suddenly the priest has a new wardrobe.
If the Bishop thinks a priest is too fat, he starts a diet. If the Bishop doesn’t like beards, overnight all the priests in his Diocese have no facial hair– this is the kind of thing I was thinking about.
And you right, in any other area of life, the kind of tactics the RCC employ to keep their priests put and in line would be considered a violation of many labor codes– but because it is a religious institution it can set it own rules and police itself.
However, making some ladies out there unfamiliar with these aspects within the RCC isn’t feeding the fear, just making them aware what their priest deals with day in and day out. It doesn’t excuse bad behavior, but it can explain some other confusing aspects for some.
I don’t think we need to focus on it all the time, but it never hurts to remind ourselves and new readers of some of these more distasteful aspects to our faith community and how they influence their priest.
Fear Psychology: I never thought of it in the context of giving it life.
I hope you tell your story: 1) for all women and 2) especially for priests who are reading but do not comment… your journey, your priest could provide some great insight to our priests struggling, some tools for navigating attraction and the confidence/courage to be all he can be to the woman he loves.
It would be block-buster for the blog:-)
A question every woman loving a priest should ask her beloved: “If we were outed, who would you stand by?”
To each of you involved with a priest: I hope you are respected, safe and content with all *your* personal sacrifices that propel the relationship.
@Marsh Mallow.
It’s a fair and pertinent question. I’ve never asked because he’s said from the start that he didn’t feel able to leave. I’d have to say our relationship is not been based on achieving a commitment but rather just enjoying each other’s company – it sort of evolved from a close friendship where that kind of commitment wasn’t a requirement. I’m not saying I don’t think about him leaving in a daydream. If anything, over time, it is him that is taking greater risks where even I almost feel uncomfortable on his behalf. Recently I have found myself needing to slow things down. In many ways it is him who takes the biggest risks and personal sacrifice. Where once I would have thought no way would he stand by me – now I wouldn’t totally rule it out if the personal circumstances were right.
MM~
You have a healthy journey with your priest, and I find it admirable you do not attend his parish. It must be tempting to visit him as a celebrant, but your not attending is like what one would do with any other man~ who visits their sweetie at his work?
Like Promise, I am a realist, too, but I am also a romantic. And reading your words how he is now taking greater risks speaks volumes. Your relationship is continuing to grow! Music to my ears:-)
What is your secret sauce? Not for me, but for the benefit of all the women reading from the cloud.
Thanks for sharing, I garnered some H O P E for women loving a priest.
~Marshmallow
Not long ago you wrote:
“Marsh Mallow,
I allowed your posting (just count how many are there!), because I let everybody express his/her opinion. But I do think that you are harping on the same things. Can we just let other people express their opinion? If we were in a public forum with people hearing, they won’t like it at all because it has been reduced to just to 2 people. You made your point very clear. There is no need to write continuously so as to bombard us again with your opinion. I consider your opinion closed. Let’s give some space to other people who might have a different opinion.
With all due respect, your posts will be deleted if you insist on writing on the same topic again. Being very opinionated doesn’t make your opinion more valid than others (it’s like shouting in the street).”
That didn’t last long did it?
You are basically back to only 2 commenters again now.
I hope you’re happy because 99% of your readers sure aren’t.
I think there are other readers who are writing…just check the website again. Now if person A writes a lot, it doesn’t mean that others are treated differently! It’s up to the readers to come up with new arguments etc…On my part, I have been writing on lots of other issues. But it seems that when I write about other subjects, very rarely do people comment. For example, let’s imagine that married priests will become a reality today. How are the wives preparing themselves to work side by side with the pastor? There are other issues such as the theological formation of the married priests; the management of finances of the family; the approach of the wife with the rest of the community; the children of the priests vis-a-vis the rest of the parish….Do readers want to know more? Are they interested in discussing these issues?
Sorry ladies. The reality is you can NEVER expect a conversation here that is not completely taken over by Marshmallow.
It sucks, but that’s how it’s been since she first came here and I’ve learned that that’ll likely never change.
More than focusing on Marshmallow, it’s more about other readers. I do know that most of them find it difficult to write. This is like in class, people who are good at writing, most probably would get the best results. The others are left behind. We don’t give special treatment to Marshmallow. Anybody can write his opinion. Sometimes days pass by and nobody writes anything at all. In my opinion readers surf
the internet. They don’t find articles to share with us? They don’t reflect on their experience in the church? They don’t have questions to ask?
As a relationship with a priest involved the deepest element in one’s heart, I think by time one finds lots to comment about especially when reading other people’s opinion! The experience of others might give rise to other different type of questions. But the multi-million dollar questions is: are we going to wait for others to start writing or do we start writing?
Again, I do make an invitation to all readers to write more!
Promise Can and Marsh Mallow- I cannot figure out why the Priest tells that he has feelings for a woman. He may tell just one trusted “friend”, but it flies through the congregation. All h___ breaks loose even when there has been no relationship. And, for the woman, there is no recourse. Lose a job, get the dirty looks. He can talk and talk, discuss the difficulties that he has endured. But not the woman. Nothing to say because nothing has happened; except it has. Her peace and reputation are affected. She waits for it to pass, but it never does.
Well I cannot speak for all priests, but I imagine when someone who has been trained all his life to view romantic love as a threat, not just to his livelihood, but his standing in the RCC, and his relationship with God, when such a man begins to fall in love, he is probably feeling very confused and conflicted. He is human, so the need to confide in a trusted source about his situation is natural.
However, if this trusted source is another priest, or a very Conservative Catholic– they might feel the need to “share” the info with a higher up– like I said everyone in the RCC is fine with secret affairs, but no one wants a priest to fall in love and leave– it is the leaving they try to stop.
Of course if a priest really wants to leave he can– but they do apply a lot of pressure on them to give up their “love” for “the greater good”. And of course what the priest chooses depends a lot on him, his upbringing, how long the relationship has been going on, his dissatisfaction with his vocation etc– but if he chooses to stay, he has to give up the relationship and unfortunately, it is the woman left to deal with the fall out. No one is going to blame him for being “weak”, but many,not all, but many, will blame her for being the “temptress” who “try to lure” a righteous priest off his path.
Is it fair? No. But it happens all the time, when these situations get exposure– and I personally believe it never passes– the woman can leave the parish, but the rumor mills and the gossip can follow her into a new parish– other priests get the memo that this lady can be a “danger” to priests. Sometimes the lady has to either switch to cities, or become a Protestant, because most of them have far more compassion about it, than some Catholics.
I sometimes get mad at Peter for the way he handles our relationship– but I understand he is protecting me as much as himself– by his extreme paranoia –because unfortunately when it comes to a secret, as soon as it told to more than one person, the odds it not staying a secret rises.
I don’t know if you asked this question in general, or if this has happened to you. If it happened to you I am sorry, your pain, your feelings were discarded and you have found little compassion or support over what you have loss– but sadly the history of the RCC is littered with heart broken women, that our Lord has to comfort and heal for this reason.
In cases like this the woman either holds her head high and not let those who are trying bully her out the parish or even RCC win– or decides it is not worth the battle and moves on– there are many Protestant churches who would welcome her, and help her stay the course with her personal relationship with God. It depends how Catholic she is, how tied her faith in God is tied with the Catholic Church.
That’s why in my case, as I have already stated, that I was already feeling a fish out of water. It wasn’t simply a woman who made me make a decision! There were many issues at stake!
Hello~
I was just going to share on here what a priest friend told me, and then I scrolled down, and Daniel wrote it!
Here is what he said: When I have been the sounding board for priests contemplating leaving, I recommend them developing their own *theology* and surprisingly, once the door was cracked open, the priest had numerous other issues aside from falling in love.
So, “What comes first, the chicken or the egg?”
He is a very special priest; nearly his entire ordination class has left the priesthood, and he stayed a loyal friend to each of them. Including several gay priests who came out. His mantra: It is between the priest and God, nobody else.
A mantra *Marshmallow* needs to remember.
~Marshmallow
Chloe~
I like your wording, “Nothing has happened; except it has.” Sage, indeed! Peace and reputation affected, yes. Mine still from among his *inner circle*.
While I had no trouble from other parish members, it well made-up by his *circle*~ certain office staff and members of the councils.
Are you in any sort of relationship or communication with your priest?
~Marshmallow
Marshmallow.
We have had many conversations over the years, until the development. He is usually not “assigned” to my mass, and I don’t stray my assigned place. However, my phone number is easily accessible, as is my address. I have an aversion to being cornered in the sacristy, while I prepare the sacraments for service. He can call me if he wants to talk, but he talks from the pulpit. I am certain that I am being somewhat stubborn about it, but he is catered to enough. Once again, I am trusting my Lord.
It seems very few initiate, but many seem to speak from the pulpit. I am thinking that is a pitfall of meeting a priest within the parish he is assigned. Or staying there once the attraction/friendship begins to germinate?
One thing I have learned coming to this blog: there are many similarities among *our* priests, but yet many differences.
Once I began to heal, and repel the vitriol I had for *my* priest’s damage to me, this became more clear.
Thanks for sharing!
~Marshmallow
Chloe~
If you are able or willing to share more about your *chatty* priest, we could all probably extend some light 🙂
~Marshmallow
And P.S. I am a Marsh Mallow fan.
Ohhh, Chloe, you drew me a tear.
Thank you, Sister!
~Marshmallow
Well I admit I have been pretty chatty on this thread, but it is only because I am on holidays and I have the time and I enjoy writing.
Also, I think it is important from time to time to make new readers aware of the darker side of things, not to frighten them, but because there is so much secrecy even in a mutual respected relationship with a priest, it gives the darker side a good breeding ground to thrive. The darker side is like germs, you can’t live your life scare of them, but that doesn’t mean you don’t take precautions against them to protect your body from illness. So if you want to be involved with a priest, or are involved with one, know the risks, and proceed as you will.
I don’t know what makes me cry more, the stories of ladies who gave their heart to man who just used her and then discarded her like a worn tissue– or those ladies who are die hard romantics in love with a Catholic priest.
I know I say I am realist, and I am but the doesn’t mean I don’t have a romantic heart. I find this particular time of year extremely hard for me. Everyone always asks what I am doing for Christmas, and I can tell what I will be doing, but can never tell what I want to be doing– what I am doing is spending the day with family, what I want to be doing is this
I want to go to Christmas Mass with Peter, not with him as a priest saying mass. I want him to be there sitting with me in the pews, holding my hand; giving me a peck on the cheek when we give each other the sign of peace. I want Peter to be my date as we visit my family and I be his date when we visit his. I want us to come back to my place. I want to be able to sit on a couch with him and just talk about everything from the profound to the trivial. I want to be able to cook him a meal and share it with him. I want us to clean up together while singing and dancing to Christmas songs. After dinner I want to share a glass of wine with him, as we cuddle together not saying a word, just watching the flames of the fake fireplace on the television. Eventually, I want us to look into each other eyes, and just know, there are no more words, no more doubts, no more fear, as we go into my bedroom and make love for most of the night until we fall asleep with nothing but peace and joy in our hearts. I want to awake the next day and find him just staring at me. I want us to take a shower together, and make love again– then I want to have a long breakfast with him, pack him a lunch, kiss him and hug goodbye and send him off back to the real world– This is the Christmas I want, but will never get—so I don’t which is more painful, being abused or knowing the deepest longings of your heart will never be realized
But the reality is in God’s eyes neither situation should exist– and the only thing I ever ask God for Christmas, is not to give me the Christmas I want, but to remove this requirement from the RCC, to free it from the darkness and give it freedom to embrace the light of love, in every form without fear
This is my Christmas prayer for myself and all you– with tears in my eyes and apologies for being too chatty
Promise
Yes Promise Can, that is what happened to me. Not once, not twice, but three times. Yes, I did change cities. Yes, I did lose my job. Not because of the Bishop, but because of Catholic complaints. En mass. A position that I have held successfully for many years, only to suddenly be perceived as having no idea how to do the job. The accusations were startling. I found a new job within two weeks and have been there ever since. These good Catholics made up stories. I have no idea whether he knows the truth. He was assigned to the sister school shortly after my departure. But, there was no relationship. Not a conversation. Nothing. I do admit to being a good escape artist, and if a man is pursuing me and I don’t want to get caught, I won’t.
I do admit, again, to a spiritual connection with #1 and #3.
I was a Protestant. I worked very hard to become Catholic. It was very important to me. I have been Catholic for about 20 years and on and off during this time, a priest thingy. On the day of my confirmation (Easter) a dead bird was on my porch. What was that? The devil? I feel that I have been battling to be at peace and Catholic since my confirmation. I was raised by non-religious and being Catholic was significant to me. Called. And then abused.
Do I want to be with him? Yes. But, not as a priest. He has a brain. He can leave. That is why I admire Marsh Mallow, she knew the line in the sand and she drew it. She was retaliated against. I have had no relationship with any priest and I too am retaliated against.
I would like to go to Christmas Mass, not have my heart pounding because of the side-way glances. Not have the Deacon treat me like I am invisible. Just have peace. Enjoy my Lord.
And, if the man knocks on my front door as a civilian, then all the better. But, don’t come to me in full vestments, and think that a conversation is going to happen. It won’t (and that happened too)!
The truth is, I will probably watch Christmas Mass on TV so that I will have peace. In private. Alone. Safe. So sad. Tears in my eyes as well.
Most probably if you’re ‘invisible’ then you’re a threat for the whole congregation ie you can face issues that are lurking under their false spirituality!
Again I am deeply sorry you have been treated like this, but I am not shocked. As I said earlier everything is fine and dandy as long as it is a secret, but as soon as it is not– then boom. And it doesn’t matter if the lady never had sex with him, or even kissed him; maybe she didn’t even talked to him more often than any other parishioner– all that matters is “Father” is attracted, likes or has feelings for her– so that makes her a threat to his vocation.
I honestly believe in their minds how they treat you is an act of love for “Father” that they are protecting him, keeping him safe for God— I don’t know how else to explain how in good conscious they can go up to communion while knowing how they are mistreating a fellow Christian– all I know they justified it somehow, as I often said, some of the greatest evil is done by those who believe they are doing something good.
Since you chose to be Catholic, there must of have been something about the Catholic faith that touched you deeply that made you willingly to convert– try to focus on what that was and hopefully that will get you through —
And I wouldn’t worry about the dead bird– most see them as a good omen, representing the end of something and the beginning of something new, which would fit if you saw it on the day you were confirmed.
As for Christmas Mass, the choice is yours. Personally, if I felt like an outcast at my parish, to me that would make me feel more alone that watching a mass on television. A televised mass, is still a community of believers– and although you cannot physically take communion, I believe Jesus still comes into the viewers heart– the televised community is there for any Catholic who cannot go to their parish, the sick, the housebound, those away, and for those like you are not spiritually safe at their parish at the moment. When the time is right to return the Holy Spirit will let you know– until then as you watch via the t.v. close your eyes, imagine the thousands of Catholics who watching it with you– they are your faith community, their prayers, their presence is strengthening you, as your prayers and presence strengthens them– Christians in Christ, are NEVER ALONE.
Oh my gosh, you have been through a lot Chloe! I totally get-it about the treatment. “My priest’s” holy friends treated me despicably, too. Stares, ignoring or whispers. And had I not had a Protestant employer who knew me for decades, I would have likely lost my job because of my priest, his holy friends and the Diocese.
The bird on your porch was a warning; not the devil! IMO. I had two other priests crushing on me years ago, too; good guys both of them. No trouble. But bizarre for us to have these characters. Maybe our Protestant blood lures them? Psychologically we could present differently than cradle Catholics and we don’t recognize it but a priest perhaps could?
I also officially joined the Catholic Church as an adult, too. My mom was Lutheran and daddy not a solid practicing Catholic; so much of my time was spent in a Lutheran Church, too. Fifty years ago a mixed marriage was a mortal sin so no confirmation until adult. No Catholic school so I too worked hard to become a full-standing Catholic. And then divorced years ago~ the Church was shitty about that, too, but with all divorcees; so I left.
Then when I returned the first time, I came out of Mass and a smashed monarch butterfly was on my driver side window? It spooked me, too, but I always thought it was a warning~ like your dead bird!
And it was a warning: the priest turned out to be dopey.
I am with my kids so I will be watching midnight Mass at their home huddled in the guest room. If I went to Mass at my old church, I would get the glares and the same from the deacons and their phony wives. But even my new church, I am often paranoid about who knows what. What is wrong with these people?
If you don’t post again before Christmas have a Merry one; pamper yourself.
Blessings to you~
~Marshmallow
PS~ I have a wonderful niece named Chloe~ it’s a lovely name for two lovely women.
Never too chatty. I like your Christmas dream. It is tough on Christmas Day. Take heart that there are many of us in this situation on Christmas Day feeling the same way – you are not alone in those wishes.
Promise~
Your post reminded me when I *FIRST* met my priest and the hope I had for us~ and the first Christmas was yet unscathed by his charade. Reading this brought a tear, not for him. But a tear for the hope and joy I had during that time and a tear for that part of my heart he betrayed.
I haven’t reached the *hope and joy* with my new companion as I had with the priest even though I thoroughly enjoy him and his wonderful qualities. And the Christmas season has magnified it. Sigh.
Thank you for the great post~ trip down Memory Lane, Promise!
~Marshmallow
Promise~
I appreciate your writing, but it is your *thinking,* while it is analytical~ it is deep and moving! As I mentioned, I often read your posts like a book with *chapters.*
You have definitely given us depth here.
In the same vein, I appreciate MM’s style: Landscape thinking: visionary and sweeping but succinct and poignant.
And to many others who bring valuable insight to this enormous and challenging life experience.
We are all fortunate to have found this blog, its host and each other! For me, there are not words enough to express my gratitude for the countless writers who have helped me heal. Thank you.
Blessings To All~
~Marsh Mallow
Well, Fr. Chatty brought it all up again, starting with 3 years ago was the hardest year of my life. Not going to tell you why…but of course now the conversation is “Why” was it Father’s hardest year. So it is again brought to the surface. sigh.
Here is a story from a couple in France, they share a brief glimpse into what happened to them-
I quickly just want to go on record that although I understand why the lady in the clip I provided compared her hidden affair with a priest to be like one of a mistress– the two are totally different.
For one thing despite using the metaphor of marriage, a man cannot marry an institution, nor a woman (nun) marry God. A priest is not married to the Church– his commitment and his devotion can be model after a marriage, but it isn’t a marriage despite what many priests and Catholics alike believe.
Also, if the marriage thing is literal, which I don’t think it is, but if it is then Jesus is the bridegroom of the Church– the Church can only have one bridegroom, not a whole bunch of mini wanna be bridegrooms– at best priests are the bridegroom’s entourage
The reason I point this out is because the word “mistress” has a lot of meanings attached to it other than it’s literal definition. I do not want any lady out there to believe she is his mistress, and all the judgments that go with the word, even if the lady in the clip felt like one– she wasn’t.
Fr. Daniel I have a question, the priest in the clip said the Bishop got rid of him because of the scandal. I was under impression a priest would only be tossed out if he refuses to “repent” by giving her up, and then refuses to resign? Or would a priest just see his leaving the priesthood as a firing–even if he resigned—because he doesn’t really have a choice of staying if he is not willing to give her up?
It’s a matter of semantics~ words have many meanings that make each definition literal. But colloquialism *implies* a certain meaning, but not necessarily literal. That’s how we get jargon, dialects, slang…
IMO, mistress most often conveys the forbidden; a second place; a convenience and not a commitment and even secretive. We don’t know the entire story from the video, but my guess would be she was a mistress for part of their relationship. Or maybe second choice after his departure from the Church. (Sex on the first *outing* is not usually a good way to establish relationship longevity. Said the blushing Catholic woman writing on a priest-hosted blog.)
Another Example: the use of martyr. Martyr in the Church is choosing death over forsaking Catholic Christianity from typically an ultimatum.
I don’t interpret the Church deeming “married to the Church… other than guilt camouflaged to keep the house in order: give more oomph to the promise of celibacy or vow of chastity. Made it easier for lay persons to understand the *gift* of celibacy they were recipient to ~ especially when literacy was not common. Just guessing here.
When JFK was assassinated the press referred to him as “dying as martyr” when in reality he was murdered. There was no ultimatum.
My priest wanted a *mistress.* 😦
~Marshmallow
I stepped away while writing this post, and the paragraphs got out-of-order~ sans wine.
I was going to share my story and let Father Daniel use my real name to advocate for a married priesthood, however, due to the negativity on this site, and the comments following what little I have written, this isn’t the place. I will never visit this site again and wish you all the best.
I am very sadden when anyone decides to leave, are you certain?
Aren’t you the one who earlier stated in a very dramatic way using the F word to say she didn’t care what anyone thinks or says?
I challenged you on that, because I didn’t believe you– and you are proving that assessment correct- if you didn’t care you wouldn’t be leaving this blog.
I read every post on this thread, there is not a negative comment in the whole lot, so if you are hearing negative things, here, then I am truly concern you are no way prepare for the real hate that will be thrown at you should your relationship with your priest get exposed;
If my concern is not valid, then stay, prove you have what it takes to stand up for yourself. Share you story; yes it will make you vulnerable; yes some might say things you do not want or like to hear; but if you cannot take what you might hear here; here where personally I see nothing but support coming from everyone– then your dramatic I don’t give a F— was all bark and no bite, to cover up I suspect is insecurity that some comments trigger.
Honestly ladies, if you can’t handle a Marshmallow or anyone else here– then you definitely not ready to face what will come your way, if your relationship gets exposed– which is why I shared the clip. Their’s was a real love story, it wasn’t based on the dark side–and both of them were put through hell for it.
Me sharing that is not negative– but just like no one wants to hear about the dangers of alcohol when all they want to do is party; they don’t want to see the videos of mangled bodies that resulted in drunk driving– they don’t want to hear about lives being ruin by alcoholism– all these things will not happen to them, they are immune, so they do not listen or take precautions– and everything is fine, until it isn’t.
So you can leave in a self righteous huff, or you could stay, develop a real spine and challenge those who challenge you– being challenged doesn’t have to be a negative thing– it doesn’t have to done in a nasty way–and if you can’t do that, here, where no one knows you, where it is safe– then like I said I worry what will happen to you, in your real life— when everyone is looking at you like you were a piece of gum stuck to their shoe, or the remarks are truly vicious and cruel– nothing here is remotely in that league.
I understand no one likes to make themselves emotionally vulnerable, naked — hoping for a warm blanket of comfort, only to be handed a tiny towel, or worse have cold water thrown on them. I get that– it has happened to me a few times here, and it is never fun and always disappointing– and although I was going a leave myself a number of times– I didn’t, because I believe, my sharing helps not just me, but others; the silent majority who never comment, just come here, read a few threads and then move on— so if you have a story, that can help that person– then if you allow any one here to stop that– that will be a real shame, because whatever your story is, I guarantee someone needs to hear it.
So please reconsider–for their sake. If you have something of value to offer, don’t let me or anyone else silence that voice.
You’re right Horsiegal. You can have the best loving reciprocal relationship with a priest and it will still get picked apart and twisted into something shameful and ugly. Jealousy always rears it’s ugly head.
And inevitably, just like it has been for the last couple of years, every story, even the most happy, beautiful scenario, will always include a comment about rape and sodomy of children.
No wonder there are so few comments. No wonder so many have left.
Horsiegal~
“You don’t need anyone writing on this blog to validate your relationship with [a priest]”~ a savvy writer taught me.
I have been fearful of sharing my story because of the stalker(s) I encountered since my first post.
But, “I don’t need stalkers to validate my story.” In 2020 I am sharing it but after the wrap-up with him~ I am a legal witness to some of his machinations that reached far beyond me.
I don’t need other writers to validate my earnest, heartfelt concerns for women with priests, either~ I know what is in my heart. If my comments are considered negative;~ so be it. The priests are the common denominator of negative blog content.
Stay and share story, please. You have been a fierce defender of your love for a cleric~ and he sounds genuine. There is nothing like chutzpah!
I cannot speak for others, but you have been an inspiration to me.
Merry Christmas, Horsiegal!
God Bless You~
~Marshmallow
P.S. Horsiegal. I know it doesn’t make you want to stay when you are reprimanded like a child for using the word “f…”. Really is it any worse than the images that are conjured up when we keep hearing about rape and sodomy?? I think not. Yet it’s a big shocker when you make a heartfelt comment about your feelings. Then you are questioned on whether your comment was genuine and accurate.
I totally understand why you want to leave because even the comments trying to convince you to stay are negative and judgemental.
But mine comment is not. I am behind you 100%. I totally understand and can so relate. And we are not the only ones who feel this way. There are many who left for that exact reason.
And NONE of this so called reality is helping to advance the push toward optional celibacy or married priesthood. It only gives everyone who is against married priesthood more ammunition. They see what you and I see – constant negativity.
They are probably laughing because even the writers here can’t seem to see the positive side of a priest’s relationship with a woman. And that even the woman here can’t offer support for women in love with a priest – only condemnation. Why would ANYONE think married priesthood is a good idea when you can’t even come here to promote it without it turning into a priest bashing session. Maybe once in a while, but constantly?? And to what end?? Does anyone really think woman are that stupid that they can see the dangers of getting involved with a priest? How could they not know the dangers when it’s been crammed down our throats for a few years on here along with a judgement chaser. Even those who say they feel like they are being judged are told they are mistaken.
Anyway, I get it. But its not gonna change as long as judgement and priest bashing are allowed to continue.
If you need REAL support I would be happy to receive a private message from you.
Please know you and your priest will continue to be in my prayers.
Wishing you and your priest a Happy Christmas. 💟
For the life of me I will never understand how one’s person’s bad experience is a threat anyone’s joyful one. One might think those who have known such love would have more compassion and empathy for those in pain.
It was not that long ago, when one lady berated me for you using the word damn in one of my replies to her, yet another person can use the F word which is highly offensive to many, but when someone she like uses profanity , it is fine as long as it not directed at her– makes no sense to me. She can berated me for using damn, but Marshmallow’s calm and reason comment suggesting that profanity lowers you not lifts you is unacceptable?
I have done my best to broker peace. I tried to help ladies who are in wonderful relationships to understand what it is like for those who were abused in one. I left a link for those who were abused in hopes they could find the proper support and validation there because so many of you show so little compassion toward ladies that were. I did my best to warn even those in great relationships right now, if something goes wrong, it can get ugly very fast– this is reality, and I am sorry if reality offends some.
I don’t agree with priest bashing. I have done my best to warn Marshmallow to tone it down, not to paint all priest with the same — I tried to warn her against the sledgehammer approach of replying to every comment— yet the notion that any discussion about a married priesthood isn’t valid unless it is all rainbows and lollipops is misguided at best.
I done my best to encourage ladies to stay and use their voice, but I cannot take my own advice. I have decided to leave. Before I started commenting there were many voices, so I was encouraged to add my own, but since I have, the comments have dwindled, so I have to consider the possibility my voice is drowning out others– so I will leave and beg the other ladies to stay.
Fr. Daniel I hope you can get your blog back, and it can be what you envisioned when you started it, because right now it is starting to resemble high school with the cool kids vs the nerds– I don’t know if removing myself from the equation will lessen that, but I am willing to give it a shot, for the better good of the blog
I will continue to pray for you and your family– I believe your cause is just and God will bless you for your efforts
Promise CAN,
For the record, I didn’t “berate ” you for using the word “damn”. And the difference is the you used that word directly pointed at me like one uses a weapon. Horsiegal didnt ditect her word at you and she didnt use it to cause hurt to anyone.
I will tell you the same thing I told you last time you said you were leaving:
You are not the reason people don’t write. You are not the reason that so many left. I have enjoyed your comments and I am saddened that you were dragged down too because YOU really are an asset to this blog.
May the peace of Christ be with you and Peter this Blessed season and always.
Another blowout here. On Christmas.
Allow me to say this: I forgive you, Cat, for perpetuating your hostility toward me.
But why did you write this: Minimizing the rape and sodomy of children.
Making predation of children your soap box to offend me. The protection of our children and the compassion to embrace those who have suffered life-long trauma from childhood rape and sodomy by our clergy is what most adults find integral to their moral fiber.
And for you to use survivors of clergy rape and sodomy to forward your agenda is despicable at best. It speaks volumes. There are no words to justify the horror for your mockery of the Church’s innocents~ whether they are children or now adults. If this were my blog, that would have been your last post.
While part of me is flattered for all the attention you extend me :-)… your anger toward me is baffling after three years. Maybe you are ashamed? Ashamed of acquiring happiness with your priest at the expense of your husband? I must say, with all the love between you and your priest, you do not represent the experience well.
You are entitled to your opinion of me, but is your vitriol and your unrelenting attempt to pit others against me something your priest would suspect of you or support?
So if it makes anyone else feel better to Marshmallow-bash, be my guest. If you want to blame me for the blog stats, blame me. The change in writers on the blog can be a number of reasons: My comments likely account for some, I will take responsibility. I do not hold a popular position.
But, likely other writers have alienated comments as well. Each of us, in our brokenness, have the ability to irk others, and there will *always* be someone who will not agree with us.
Also, globally, the closet of the Church has been opened, and clergy morality has taken-on a new life. I suspect that has contributed to one’s reluctance to write as well. It is a white-hot topic in the USA and dividing the American Catholic Church.
My greatest hope for the decline in writers is this: Our Sisters- In- Christ have acquired a presence that does not force them to go to a blog. That our Sisters-In-Christ are more than loved~ they are respected, valued and possess the self-esteem to create a healthy and safe relationship. No matter with whom.
As For My Priest-Bashing: Last time I will say this for the last time~ I have spent my life in a successful, meaningful not only dominated by men, but a career well-steeped in clergy relationships. An opportunity to know a diocese of Catholic clergy from thirty-plus years of interfacing with them~ more than probably all of the writers here combined.
Many, many, many of them drive the Church with passion and integrity. And many, many, many of them I hold with inestimable respect and a filial love because they have given me no reason to bash them.
So for my “priest-bashing”~ it has *always* been within the context of this blog. It is beyond my value system to normalize bad behavior no matter what kind of shirt he wears.
As for the number of my posts~ Daniel is the blog host, and he can delete as he determines. We could also consider number of lines to our posts? Or the number of inches of our posts! This post is 600 words.
And lastly, sorry to disappoint anyone, but I am not leaving unless Daniel asks me. There is a world out there who *hits* this blog beyond those who write~ look at the data
Merry Christmas.
~Marsh Mallow
MarshMallow,
It’s not my intention to kick off people. In our pastoral work we have to work like Christ: if somebody is in need of redemption, then it’s our duty to try to make the person realise its mistakes! If not, there is nothing to do about it. We only delete messages which insult the others in a direct way (conscious way).
I gave you the right to explain yourself. Now please let’s move on. There are other issues to discuss in the married priests’ world!
Daniel~
Yes, please do get on with married priesthood. Somebody awaken me when it begins, please.
~Marshmallow
Marsh Mallow,
Let’s not lose faith! Married Priesthood is already a reality in the Western Rite of the Catholic Church. But it might become possible for more priests. Let’s have the mentality of the prophets of the old testament: they did speak about the future of which they might have never seen, yet they were sure that it would have come one day!
“While part of me is flattered for all the attention you extend me :-)… your anger toward me is baffling after three years. Maybe you are ashamed? Ashamed of acquiring happiness with your priest at the expense of your husband? I must say, with all the love between you and your priest, you do not represent the experience well.
You are entitled to your opinion of me, but is your vitriol and your unrelenting attempt to pit others against me something your priest would suspect of you or support?”
Rev Daniel, please remove this part of Marshmallows comment. I am deeply offended by her writing about my beloved priest. That is going too far. My priest is sacred to me and I dont want that her bringing him into her vile comments. Please don’t allow this in the future either. It is disrespectful to his memory and I want it to stop now please.
Quick PS
There will be a comment from me on the next thread, only because I posted it before I posted this one- not because I said I was leaving then quickly changed my mind.
Promise~
Don’t leave; you have become the compass of the blog. Leaving only puts gasoline on the fire.
Love you, Promise~
Marshmallow
Broken Heart~
I hope you are reading along with blog.
With all the discussions that have and continue to take place here, I was always held the steadfast belief *your* priest would come for you after he completed his cycle of grief and loss.
That he hasn’t totally shocks me~ shocking, because you knew your priest prior to his ordination~ for a lifetime.
But perhaps he knows he is not yet ready and does not want to expose you to his sorrow and any secondary fall-out.
Do know you remain on my Adoration prayer list, Southern Belle, hoping you find the Peace our Lord wants for you.
Merry Christmas~
Marshmallow
PS~ I have been visiting my kids and grandchildren~ the energy! And Christmas Magic. Church tonight (they are no longer Catholic); “Santa” comes while they are at worship. Gifts after with buffet. Grammie is tired and going home tomorrow. I hope:-)
I would like to add one consolation that I have and that is my “senior” priest is very supportive. He has been a witness to my challenges and he seems confident of my response. It is a huge comfort to me to feel his “blessing”. I suspect that he has even intervened on my behalf throughout the years. It is something for which I am grateful.
Promise Can-
You have helped me. When we disagreed you heard me. I think that you need us at least as much as we need you. You are telling your story more and I think that your are delving into the depth of your spirituality. You need that too.
You are analytical and a tad wordy, but once you leave all that behind and discover the core of you and your God, then I think that your trust in God’s process for you will become a revelation. Talk to us. Change your direction for awhile. You represent “Mother” and “research” to this blog. But, for now, dig to reveal you. I know that love feelings are a tangle and none of us like to 1) expose ourselves 2) be questioned about the genuineness of our interpretation.
Promise I don’t doubt for one minute that you have loved a somewhat unlovable man for 18 years. And trust me, I don’t want it to be me in that place, but it could happen. For now, you hold tight to it was worth it. And I am not saying that it is not, but it still could be a question. The love is worth it because it was your experience. But, the freezing you out for 5 years was terrible. But for you, when did just plain stubborn set in? I say that lovingly.
We all love a priest, react to it differently, interpret the best we can, anticipate the “hope” and “panic” if it should be realized. But, stay with us. We have ego’s. You have an ego. Here you can explore it with like minded ladies.
At one point in my journey I shared my spirituality with a nice counselor of whom I had a good rapport. The minute I touched the surface he started labeling it “hallucination”. He was a nice, sound Jewish man who cared for his blind wife. He helped me very much in another “reality” problem, but I could see that we would have no meeting of the minds in my “spiritual” area. So it is on this blog. I encourage you to change your tactics. Explore you. We will listen. And even poke and prod at your revelations.
Merry Christmas
A New Year is coming.
*NEGATIVE COMMENTS*
A number of comments have surrounded the (my) negative comments.
So I ask, why aren’t those of you making claim to a positive experience with a priest drowning me out with YOUR JOY. Nothing like success changes the score. I would think you would be busting the blog with your happiness~ because YOUR positivity WILL change the spirit of this blog,
So quit bitching and whining about ME and write about YOUR life with a priest: Share what is *tangible* about your relationship beyond “we love each other”~ what you do together, what do you share, how do you communicate, how often do you see one another. Do you go in public; do you join in each other’s family events~ do you meet-up with each other’s social friends?
In other words, how is your *love* for one another lived-out?
Put some CREDIBILITY into *all this love* you and your priest share~ prove me wrong, drown me out, silence me~ YOUR SUCCESS will be the best defense to my negative comments.
Because until YOU do, all there is left are negative experiences.
Happy New Year!
~Marshmallow
The Prayer of St. Francis
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace,
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
Where there is injury, pardon;
Where there is doubt, faith;
Where there is despair, hope;
Where there is darkness, light;
Where there is sadness, joy;
O Divine Master,
Grant that I may not so much seek
To be consoled as to console;
To be understood as to understand;
To be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
Amen
Thank you, Cat.
~Marshmallow
Maybe there are not as many priest/woman relationships going on as suspected. I know that I was (am) a runner. Too much for me. I know that Priest #2 was a runner, whatever his reason. Most of these stories are about something other than a relationship. It seems that flirting in church is the norm. Extreme eye contact. Messages from the homily.
When does a priest ask a woman to dinner? And what does the priest say if a woman asks him?
I know that I have nothing to offer in the rational world of “dating” a priest.
I have only to add the abuse from the “church ladies and men”. The looks and the gossip. The lose of a job. Dodging him. Exiting from an unexpected door because he “used” to wait for me at the expected door (when I was unsuspecting). Priest #1 sitting in his truck for a week in front of my house (creepy).
The “spiritual” connect that I believe that I have with my priest is a gift from God. But to what end, I don’t know.
After all, didn’t our host choose to leave for reasons other than love? Love is always a good excuse to change direction in one’s life. I am not being insulting, just maybe that is more the norm than leaving for love.
I would say that ultimately we have made good self-preservation decisions. I don’t regret mine. He can leave if he wants to, he can ask me out on a date, but does he want to change direction in his life? Is it enough information on his part to assess, since we have had no personal relationship to evaluate. I would say not likely.
The “rules we live by” for good Catholics is enough to keep the relationships at bay.
We have a “New Year”. Maybe Married Priests, but I doubt it. So, is this blog making headway? I think that it helps us to sort feelings and talk about issues that are taboo in ordinary conversation. Clearly, what it is not, is a lot of woman secretly getting onto a blog and telling details of a sordid relationship.
So, making way for married priests or showing that the celebrate rules work. That is the question.
Yes it is an open space for people who wish to write about their ‘hidden’ relationship with a priest.
On your last point, yes every now and then we try to give some formation reading about married priests.
We are not inventing the wheel, actually most of the apostles were married! So we’re not ruining our religion but actually going to the basics!
Sure, of course. I am obviously for Married Priests. Not only do I think that I would have been married to one, if allowed, but to have the opportunity to explore it would have helped with “mental health” processes when the attraction was there. Moreover, I think that we would have a better selection of priests representing our individual cultures. In my area, we have many from India. I think that our individual cultures are losing by importing priests.
The problem that I see is the financial format insulated within the catholic culture. All of these rectories around supporting 4 or so priests. And then, in addition, the ownership of priests. Re-affirming their vows every year as has been mentioned on this blog, the cult mentality. The sacrifice of a relationship. Still “Why” that sacrifice? I think that it is barbaric and against human nature.
And, for me, the worse thing to see are the Vatican clips. All of these old, high ranking, self-satisfied, fat men, soft in every area, parading their ridiculous wares, knowing that most of them have never developed into full men, or had a genuine relationship.
And the second worse thing, is shaking hands with a priest whose hands are softer than mine, because the most strenuous thing they have ever done, is “turn a page” in a book. Softies. It turns my stomach.
So, of the priests that stay for a lifetime. They retire, substitute every now and then, grow old, have dogs to love, and think that their presence is important. And, it no longer is. Or maybe it is just a pretense, a defense, against the fakeries they have endured for a lifetime. The grow old part we all do, but hopefully without the pretense that we are important. We have developed a full life with full relationships, both good and bad. But, genuine life experiences that reflect the gift of life. Their “sacrifice” wears on their development, and seems pathetic to me. Even on our Pope, I see it.
Good Morning~
A quick nod to you, Chloe. A very-well written essay! A protégé of Promise coming down the pike!
I would like to respond~ you made some interesting talking points about celibate priesthood. Ironically, today I am distracted by preparing for a meeting tomorrow involving the public corruption of *my* priest and his ilk.
Blessings to you for your brave commentary; it is not easy to address what should not require Catholic Christians to address.
~Marshmallow
The reason people don’t talk about their positive relationship with a priest is not because there aren’t any. It’s because of what happens when they do. I know of at least 6 positive relationships on here since I started reading about 5 years ago. The problem is that in the last 3 years the stories are met with such jealousy and abuse that people just stopped telling their stories. One woman included a lovely picture of her and her priest. She was called “disgusting” and “revolting”. Another compared her relationship to the writer’s and her words were twisted and she was accused of being “antisemitic”. A priest wrote about his relationship with his Beloved and for absolutely no reason he was called “boorish” and later told he was just like all the abusive priests.
In my case, I was emotionally, physically and sexually brutalized by my ex-hushand. He threatened to kill me (and my priest) several times. I told my story of the loving reciprocal relationship my priest and I had in bits and pieces over the years. Invariably EVERY time I write about it, it is met with abusive bullying behaviour from one particular writer. Every time I write about my beautiful, loving, kind gentle priest, the subject of rape and sodomy is brought up. This is abusive bullying behaviour because I have said in the past that it hurts me to hear about that in the same conversation as my priest because he would NEVER do that but I did endure that from my ex husband. So for a while that was the sport – I’d write about my beloved priest and she’d write about rape and sodomy because she wanted to be cruel and inflict as much pain as possible on me because she is jealous that my priest was something hers wasn’t.
As in the December 26 3:37 a.m. comment (“Ashamed of acquiring happiness with your priest at the expense of your husband?”) I have had the fact that I was still married when I met my priest thrown in my face at least 5 times over the last 3 years. It doesnt seem to matter that I was tortured on a daily basis and had to leave to literally save my life. It doesnt matter that I didnt feel the need to be faithful to my abuser. She focusses on the fact that I was happy with my priest “at the expense of” my so-called husband. What kind of person does that? Keeps bringing up the fact that I was married when I found my priest?? The kind of person who can’t see past their hatred and rage and wants everyone to be as miserable as them – that’s who.
So it’s not a matter of there not being any positive relationships with priests. No one wants their love story ripped apart and turned into something shameful and ugly like she continuously tries to do to mine.
I also met people who mention rape and sexual abuse in the catholic church. My love is compared with prostitution and there comes a lot of psychical pressure on me. I stop contact with such people and they pretend not to understand why I stop contact!!! They just blind to see that my love is holy for me and just another love story like everyones. I do not want my love to be mixed up with dirty things like protitution!!!
I fully understand you cat. Please continue sharing here.
Sure your love is holy and a remembering of whole of your life! I respect that and would never judge you even if your husband would have been an angel!
Hope you do not misunderstand me 😉
I have two orthodox priest on my side who know about my relationship 🙂
Happy new year!
Hi LoveasFire,
Thank you. Your support and understanding mean a great deal to me.
Its great that you have a couple of priests supporting you. My priest’s priest friends have been a great comfort to me and are fiercely protective of me even now. They are always there when I need to talk or just need a hug and a smile. They seem to understand my pain as they miss my priest too.
Thanks again Loveasfire. Your kind words are like soothing medicine for my wounds. ❤
Halo Cat,
when we are going through intensive experiences others often miss that. Than they even are uncareful with silly suggestions, questions and supposals…. This hurts even though we should know these people are just not mature enough to talk to us.
So be careful, take care of yourself and do not worry about sentences of people who would understand you better, if they had another life experience 😉
You are okay as you are!
Hi Loveasfire,
You are right but it’s hard to ignore it when you know it’s intentional, done to cause hurt. The first time I thought it was out of ignorance but when you specifically tell someone they are hurting you and ask them to stop and they don’t, that says a lot about their intentions and them as a person as well.
And then to say I am “minimizing” rape and sodomy of children because I don’t want it brought up in every conversation. That’s ridiculous because I am a survivor of this type of abuse. And she knows that because I made sure to tell her several times when I asked her to stop. But again it’s done to use words as weapons against me BECAUSE I’ve asked her to stop. That’s bullying and there should be zero tolerance for it here.
And to judge me yet again because I was still married when I fell in love with my priest. That shouldn’t be allowed either. Incidentally, one of the reasons I stayed was still married is because he told me that if I ever tried to leave he would kill me AND everyone I loved (including my priest). So I stayed and remained married in order to protect myself and those I love. I thought it was better to endure his abuse than risk the life of my priest, my mother and everyone else he knew about.
That is despicable that someone can add insult to injury like that and accuse ME of minimizing abuse. Shameful!
And yet I get judged , not once or twice but several times for making the best of an absolutely horrible situation. What a horrible way to treat another person. That is disgusting and revolting.
Can we please move on now, especially at the start of the New Year?
Yes, we can. Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. As you can tell it’s been troubling me for a while now.
Happy New Year. 😊
Marsh Mallow
Can you tell us about the meeting, public corruption?
Hello Chloe~
At this time, I am unable to discuss because I am a witness.
I had planned to share my entire journey with a priest, the local church and the Church when this comes to an end~ it is an interesting story far beyond my wounds. Much to learn. And for you who is understanding to spiritual connections, the connection I have had with the Lord is undeniable. There was no way these corrupt events would have come to my attention if it was not the directive of the Lord. I believe He was saying, “Rebuild my House.” And thus, I was the whistleblower.
But I have decided to put this unraveling on the back burner.
I am very troubled by the culture of this blog. Not just the hostility toward me for having a glaringly different posture toward women and priests or the over-powering manipulation of my truths, nor the inflammatory remarks, not even the self-centeredness of the blog culture demanding unconditional acceptance of hidden relationships from those who write.
Of themselves those tactics are meaningless because I know my one and only motive has been to protect other women from these relationships. To encourage women they deserve better than second or third place (priesthood, the Church, the woman). That “I love you” is easy peasy when there is no commitment. I have not wavered from that position. Unlikely I ever will.
But the admission of an imposture invading the blog that recently occurred~ for no other reason than to taunt me is beyond my threshold of credibility. For others on this blog, the intentional deception, duping even the writers they hold in high esteem might have no bearing~ but for sharing my story it has unearthed enormous fear. Fear because there is escalation.
That said, I am fearful of the blog imposture who lives here~ there is a stalking me that is not normal on a blog. And in the world, that sort of inappropriate behavior would have legal repercussions because of the distinct escalation of harm and the enormously abnormal investment in harming me.
So much intent to harm me *she* created a fake persona to bait particularly me, and that said, I do not know just how far the reach stretches.
And most importantly, I do not trust “she is a she.”
God Bless You, Chloe~ Happy New Year!
~Marshmallow
Marsh Mallow~
I am very sorry that you feel threatened. It is something to take seriously, and again the “spiritual” is to be trusted. I am proud of your whistle blower status. You have courage and you speak truth to my ears.
Someone may recognize you, feel threatened by a book (I would buy it), you did mention your city. I have often thought that if I lived close to you, I would love to share coffee and chat. Kindred spirits.
I will pray for your safety and peace of mind.